Jürgen Klopp - New Liverpool Manager

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Post by RED on Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:19 pm

Oh how I envy Liverpool for having this beast of a manager while we've got that 'philosophical/processor-master of boredom football' manager.

Got his team scoring goals for fun and playing well already. Respect.

United scoring 5 or 6 goals under LVG? rofl better chance of snow not melting in hell.

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Post by urbaNRoots on Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:26 pm

Man has Origi looking like a decent footballer fml
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Post by RealGunner on Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:34 pm

Amazing how much a manager makes a club likeable and enjoyable to watch ffs

Pochettino did it with spurs and now Klopp is doing with liverpool

Klopp :bow:

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Post by RED on Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:36 pm

Both quality managers. Sucks that they both manage our biggest rivals, eh?

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Post by Robespierre on Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:40 pm

You can already to notice the great improvement with Rodgers, I believed it 'd have taken more time tbh. When a manager comes during the season , it's difficult the adaption, he usually must limit the damages left from previous manager..
I was already impressed for that 1-4 at Eithad with 0-3 after 30 minutes . I don't remember other times happened to City

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:30 pm

Let's see how long this high pressing Liverpool lasts, they didn't have a proper preseason for this kind of play so I can't imagine they will be able to sustain it.

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Post by Don't call me James on Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:34 am

Klopp is the best manager in England and it's not close. Some people were 'laughing' the notion off in the BPL thread a week ago.

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Post by Lucifer on Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:39 am

If Klopp keeps on delivering like this I might have to change my username to "Pirloisalsojesus" very soon.
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Post by Nishankly on Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:39 am

@urbaNRoots wrote:Man has Origi looking like a decent footballer fml


He's like 5th choice at the club.

Sturridge, Firmino, Benteke, Ings, Origi in that order.
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Post by Helmer on Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:17 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Let's see how long this high pressing Liverpool lasts, they didn't have a proper preseason for this kind of play so I can't imagine they will be able to sustain it.

we were not pressing so energetically yesterday compared to our game against City or Chelsea. It all depends on if Klopp is able to mange the squad properly. For ex, Clyne was rested yesterday, Coutinho also got a 3 games rest. Sturridge and Henderson just came back. If all these players get a breather here and there during the season (of course considering we avoid as many as injuries as possible), I am sure the pressing game wont be a problem even towards the end of the season.

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Post by VivaStPauli on Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:43 pm

Judging from Dortmund, sustaining the pressing is not really the problem, it's teams getting wise to it, but ATM the BPL is still about 4 or 5 seasons behind the continent, tactically, so Klopp will probably be a legend before teams figure out how to beat his pressing.

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Post by jibers on Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:56 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:Judging from Dortmund, sustaining the pressing is not really the problem, it's teams getting wise to it, but ATM the BPL is still about 4 or 5 seasons behind the continent, tactically, so Klopp will probably be a legend before teams figure out how to beat his pressing.


100% this. His tactics were adjusted to after they won their last bundesliga in 11/12, which is why they were doing better in Europe than in the Bundesliga generally in his last 3 seasons. England is perfect for him, the space between the lines and the lack of tactical acumen will mean that the build up for his transitions won't be halted very quickly. England are behind Germany tactically by a few years. By they time they adjust, Germany will probably have moved on.


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Post by VivaStPauli on Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:19 pm

Not that his tactics wouldn't work in the Bundesliga anymore, at all, Dortmund surged back at the end of last season when a lot of injured players came back, but the utter trouncing of some squads won't happen anymore.

England will probably need a bit of time to figure the tactics out as well, but while the standard of tactics is lower than it is in Germany, the general quality of players is quite a bit higher, so I think a lot of teams will have more tools to compensate for being tactically outmatched.

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Post by Unique on Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:27 pm

in the last 15 years England have had 8 champions lge finalists with 3 winners. Germany have had 6 finalists with 2 winners. what are these advanced tactics in Germany you all speak of. Wink

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Post by jibers on Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:42 pm

@Unique wrote:in the last 15 years England have had 8 champions lge finalists with 3 winners. Germany have had 6 finalists with 2 winners. what are these advanced tactics in Germany you all speak of. Wink


Germany have 1 WC in the last 8 years, England didn't get out of the group stage. Not really relevant. Klopp doesn't change his tactics and Vista simply stated that there will be adaptation to it. The bundesliga has lower talent but better tactical preparation. The EPLs quality compensates for that tactical gap so Klopp will eventually have to evolve.

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Post by Unique on Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:46 pm

@jibers wrote:
@Unique wrote:in the last 15 years England have had 8 champions lge finalists with 3 winners. Germany have had 6 finalists with 2 winners. what are these advanced tactics in Germany you all speak of. Wink


Germany have 1 WC in the last 8 years, England didn't get out of the group stage. Not really relevant. Klopp doesn't change his tactics and Vista simply stated that there will be adaptation to it. The bundesliga has lower talent but better tactical preparation. The EPLs quality compensates for that tactical gap so Klopp will eventually have to evolve.
but the England and german teams have nothing to do with tactics in the german and English lge does it. to say tactics in Germany are far more advanced than they are in the prem lge is simply not true. as them stats show you.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:50 pm

We're not talking about 10 years ago when PL was dominating, we're talking about now.

And now, the stats show that Bundesliga is above PL in Europe, even though PL has massively more money, and therefor as jibers said, undisputedly more talent and value in players.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to say that BuLi (as other leagues) is compensating that disadvantage in player quality with a focus and innovation on tactics and team work.

There must be a reason why PL isn't kicking everyone's butts, after all.

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Post by Unique on Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:57 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:We're not talking about 10 years ago when PL was dominating, we're talking about now.

And now, the stats show that Bundesliga is above PL in Europe, even though PL has massively more money, and therefor as jibers said, undisputedly more talent and value in players.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to say that BuLi (as other leagues) is compensating that disadvantage in player quality with a focus and innovation on tactics and team work.

There must be a reason why PL isn't kicking everyone's butts, after all.
but most of the champions lge success from Germany is down to one team. no team in England are as good as Bayern. but if you take Bayern out of the picture then the prem lge teams are not 5 years behind german teams.

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Post by VivaStPauli on Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:02 pm

When you look at titles or win ratio versus money spent, Germany comes ahead again, I'm pretty sure.

English teams did rather well over an extended period of time, both because they spent a lot more money on players, and because they only recently lost touch with tactical innovations on the continent, maybe for the past 5 or 6 years.

If you look how utterly out of money most German clubs are, and especially were from about 2003 to 2010, that easily explains the lack of trophies.

So I'm pretty comfortable in attributing a lot of English wins in large part to their superior squads, especially when compared all over Europe.

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Post by VivaStPauli on Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:04 pm

PS: I also don't agree with Hans that the BL is ahead as a whole, I didn't want to make a huge league v league argument, I just happen to think that the PL has a lot of managers employing outdated tactics and getting results due to extraordinary amounts of high quality players, while a lot of continental clubs, not just in Germany, but France or Portugal as well, have little money yet achieve moderate success with innovative tactics.

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Post by Unique on Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:05 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:When you look at titles or win ratio versus money spent, Germany comes ahead again, I'm pretty sure.

English teams did rather well over an extended period of time, both because they spent a lot more money on players, and because they only recently lost touch with tactical innovations on the continent, maybe for the past 5 or 6 years.

If you look how utterly out of money most German clubs are, and especially were from about 2003 to 2010, that easily explains the lack of trophies.

So I'm pretty comfortable in attributing a lot of English wins in large part to their superior squads, especially when compared all over Europe.
money has nothing to do with it. prem lge teams will be charged more for any player because the selling team knows they have lots of cash. I agree the german lge is stronger than the prem lge now. but I don't buy this English teams are 5 years behind german teams.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:08 pm

@Unique wrote: but most of the champions lge success from Germany is down to one team. no team in England are as good as Bayern. but if you take Bayern out of the picture then the prem lge teams are not 5 years behind german teams.


Ironically your point rather proves my point.

Because if you take Bayern out of the picture, the rest of BuLi top teams have ridiculously little money and make do with much worse players than their PL counterparts.

Clearly Bayern's quality is a big part of BuLi's European strength, but 'if you take them out fo the picture' the other teams should be doing much much worse.

You had Dortmund besting Arsenal and Man City, you had Schalke and Leverkusen recently with relatively decent showings although their teams are nowhere near full of quality.

Why do you think Dortmund bested Arsenal and City with a team assembled for 40m €?
Bingo, coaching, team work, team building.

What Klopp is doing with Liverpool right now, and suddenly everyone wonders why they best teams with 'more quality'.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:11 pm

Have to agree though that this '5 year behind' thing is not the words I'd use, not the way I would look at it.
I don't think this is like a scientific race to invent the nuclear bomb or something, it's not a progressive vector of history.

But I do think that PL are a bit lazy with tactics, and were able to use buying better and better players to mask that.

Or put it differently, they didn't have to focus so much on tactics because they have so many great players.

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Post by VivaStPauli on Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:23 pm

@Unique wrote:money has nothing to do with it. prem lge teams will be charged more for any player because the selling team knows they have lots of cash. I agree the german lge is stronger than the prem lge now. but I don't buy this English teams are 5 years behind german teams.


Even when PL teams are overcharged, they still are worlds beyond stacked compared to all BL teams bar Bayern.

But I don't even think the German league is stronger than the English one. And I don't think BL teams are 5 years ahead strength-wise.

I just think that the continental game is tactically ahead of the British game, and my guesstimation is "by about 5 seasons", could be 3, could be 8, who knows. I just think that even record Champions ManU employed very dated tactics for the longest part of their reign.

I'm not discussing who will win in an imaginary tournament or anything. I'm just saying, that continental coaches are much more adept at kitting over holes in their squads with good tactics and coaching, than their British counter parts who have a tendency to throw money at the problem, and then ignore it, which is why you have teams laboring on the same shortcomings for several seasons, something that really wouldn't happen on the continent, unless that problem is "losing all talented players due to lack of funds".

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:29 pm

@Unique wrote: I agree the german lge is stronger than the prem lge now. but I don't buy this English teams are 5 years behind german teams.


I wouldn't claim that BuLi is 'stronger' than PL tbh.
I don't think it's possible to say that.

But it's clear that BuLi has somewhat closed the huge gap that was there 10 years ago, and did so even while the money gap increased in the other direction.
Hence, in some aspects BuLi is doing better, one of them arguably coaching, and correspondingly value for money.

The '5 years behind' stuff is a bit sleight of hand, I agree.

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:32 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:
@Unique wrote:money has nothing to do with it. prem lge teams will be charged more for any player because the selling team knows they have lots of cash. I agree the german lge is stronger than the prem lge now. but I don't buy this English teams are 5 years behind german teams.


Even when PL teams are overcharged, they still are worlds beyond stacked compared to all BL teams bar Bayern.

But I don't even think the German league is stronger than the English one. And I don't think BL teams are 5 years ahead strength-wise.

I just think that the continental game is tactically ahead of the British game, and my guesstimation is "by about 5 seasons", could be 3, could be 8, who knows. I just think that even record Champions ManU employed very dated tactics for the longest part of their reign.

I'm not discussing who will win in an imaginary tournament or anything. I'm just saying, that continental coaches are much more adept at kitting over holes in their squads with good tactics and coaching, than their British counter parts who have a tendency to throw money at the problem, and then ignore it, which is why you have teams laboring on the same shortcomings for several seasons, something that really wouldn't happen on the continent, unless that problem is "losing all talented players due to lack of funds".


this

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