Re: Champions League: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund discussion

by shadexticos Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:16 pm

Good scoreline, good game even tho two of the three goals owe nothing to team work andcame from capitalizing on errors.
The presence of isco allowed for a better link between the midfielders and attackers but most of the time, it was the same old thing - passing the ball from left to right among the defenders and midfielders, without any creative team work.

We could see that with isco, we had some chances through the middle.

The simple solution to this problem would simply be for the right and left midfielders to move in field rather than forming an irrelevant cluster on the wings with the full-back and the winger - marcelo, isco and ronaldo all on one wing with modric carvajal and ball on another.
There is soooo much latent creativity in modric and isco and we can only see this if they cut in-field when we are attacking and then recoiling bak to their defensive position when defending.

Honestly, its dat simply because all our good team plays occured when they did just that...

Stil waiting for that day when most of our goals would start from a good build up

by Adit Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:11 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:Easy game. We let them have too many chances in the sevond half. Poor game from Ramos

Coentrao, Carvajal and especially Pepe were exceptional. Modric with a very good game, Isco had a great first half but a below par second, got to work on his fittness other than that no complaints really

Iker should easily displace Lopez ffs, if lopez was given the baton by merit its about time iker gets it back now.

Completely agreed. We played really well on the ball but Xabi Alonso was clearly below par so was Ramos with his coming out of the line shet. Xabi's first touch has been horrible lately and he defends like a grandpa. There is simply no mobility left in him,sadly.

On the last part , yes very relevant question....Iker deserves the first team spot back judging by the performances this season. His one on one save on Rues (lines man called offside) was simply GOAT..cant believe he saved that one.

by Adit Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:15 pm

shadexticos wrote:Good scoreline, good game even tho two of the three goals owe nothing to team work andcame from capitalizing on errors.
The presence of isco allowed for a better link between the midfielders and attackers but most of the time, it was the same old thing - passing the ball from left to right among the defenders and midfielders, without any creative team work.

We could see that with isco, we had some chances through the middle.

The simple solution to this problem would simply be for the right and left midfielders to move in field rather than forming an irrelevant cluster on the wings with the full-back and the winger - marcelo, isco and ronaldo all on one wing with modric carvajal and ball on another.
There is soooo much latent creativity in modric and isco and we can only see this if they cut in-field when we are attacking and then recoiling bak to their defensive position when defending.

Honestly, its dat simply because all our good team plays occured when they did just that...

Stil waiting for that day when most of our goals would start from a good build up

They cant link up through middle because Xabi stays 20 yard behind them....since Xabi Alonso cant push up due to his lack of mobility and lack of composure when pressed he cant support our other midfielders in opponents half. This is the fundamental reason behind things im going to list below

1.Lack of play through middle

2.Lack of pressing game (coupled with Ronaldo not tracking back consistently)

3.Lack of cover our defense is getting (nothing to explain really )

by halamadrid2 Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:42 pm

I can understand why we haven't played through the middle. Ronaldo never stays on the wings and always ventures to the CF position leaving his flank empty, DiMaria covers for him and at times it looks like a 4-4-2 going forward, when Isco plays he tries to stay in the middle but the problem with him is that drifts all over the midfield, now some people might think thats a good thing but no its not, it leaves us exposed on the side he left when we get countered. With Modric he is good at getting himself out of tackles but he dwells to much on the ball allowing the opposition teamto regroup and mark our dangermen

Our pressing is awful, we did press yesterday but it was like half the team pressed on one side and the other half on the other, its just not coordinated enough. the best part of our pressing came at the end of the second half but thats because we played 3 DMs lol

The midfield have stopped helping our defence like they used to, this has put a huge strain on our defence, while Pepe revels in it, Rmos has proved to be struggling. We would have conceded more yesterday hadn't it been for Carvajal and Coentrao covering the cbs when dortmund escaped our pressing. Carvajal especially just mopped everything up that went past the cbs

My biggest problem is the space between Carvajal/Pepe and Ramos/Coentrao or Marcelo, its not the first time a team have found it easy to just whizz through those gaps with a simply 1-2. Modric and DiMaria are supposed to block that path but with the lack of tracking back by Ronaldo and Bale they have had to do two jobs at once and Alonso has been forced to run more than he should which has tired him. His touches are awful like adit said and he hss become so slow he fouls someone because he knows they will skin him

Essentially my problem with this line up:

1) Carlo excusing the forwards from defensive work which leave our fullbacks for dead, Carvajal is lucky he is fast. Imagine Arbeloa Laughing

2 ) Carlo giving Ronaldo a free role which means he plays up top which drags dimaria wide and pockets of space open up in the middle with xabi having to cover more ground than he should

3) lack of clear identity, I am always curious to see what we do with the ball when a defender has it (without being pressured) and they play long balls to Ronaldo. It's like Carlo has told them to get the ball quickly to our attackers and they simply follow his instructions. But I doubt it Carlo got pretty pissed yesterday when ramos played a (failed) long ball to Bale, and I remember against Rayo how when we got the ball the attackers wanted it straight away whichever way and the ball was just bypassing our midfield or when they got it they played a quick throughball to the forwards hoping that the Rayo didn't intercept the balls. I blame the attackers for this. Not only do they not get involved in our play but they want the ball however difficult it could be to get it to them and it results in failed play and needless counters

by shadexticos Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:59 pm

@ Adit
If I am right, you are saying Alonso is at the centre of our problem (Ironically)

I agree with you but I also believe regardless of the limits of Alonso, its up to the coach to still instruct them.
Isco is naturally a CAM and that has been the major problem he has been having in adapting to his new position.
He tends to drift to d middle from time to time, which is good for us in an attacking sense, but hurts us deeply when we lose possession because of his lack of workrate.
If he could have more discipline in his game like he showed yesterday, we could improve in that department gradually.
His natural instinct as a CAM would always cause him top move in-field while di maria's natural instinct as a winger would always cause him to move towards the wings.

I believe if isco can increase his work-rate to a level close to di maria and also track back when he loses possession, we would av more flexibility to our play.

The solution to alonso is a mobile alonso - illaramendi, but we are still waiting for madrid to complete the signing of who we tot we signed

by halamadrid2 Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:06 pm

His natural instinct as a CAM would always cause him top move in-field while di maria's natural instinct as a winger would always cause him to move towards the wings.

You summed it up pretty perfectly here. But I think DiMaria is alot more diciplined and would have no problems staying in the middle if the left midfield was occupied. The bale goal vs Rayo was a perfect example of DiMaria staying in the middle and making a run behind rayos defenders to latch on to a ronaldo ball (on the wing) and squaring to bale for a simple tap in

I think if players were assigned a role rather than adapt to other players we wouldn't have to tweak things so much that we would look like a mess

by shadexticos Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:12 pm

@halamadrid
Your analysis is spot on.
I wish ancelotti could just take one day to read all these posts.
We'd destroy any team that comes our way

by shadexticos Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:17 pm

Exactly, if all players just had their roles defined.

Di maria is more disciplined but he doesn't av as much quality as isco.
Same reason he ousted ozil.
Isco should learn from ozil's case and make that positions his'

by halamadrid2 Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:31 pm

Credit where its due though, Isco was mostly diciplined yesterday, a step forward perhaps? Was very happy with how he played yesterday, could work on his fittness alittle but he is young and will improve even further in the future. We should try and play him more, he is one of those players you could expect magic from

Hopefully Carlo doesn't go all Italian in the second leg and plays Isco and Illarra together, surely we are going to score a goal and not concede 5

by shadexticos Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:37 pm

We need to approach the second leg as if we are a goal down.we need two away goals to close that tie because we can't prevent dortmund from scoring in the second leg, we shud just make sure we have enuf goals to see us thru

by halamadrid2 Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:47 pm

May I repeat we only need to score ONE goal to force Dortmund to score FIVE!!! Surely that scoreline is impossible for a team like us to suffer. We will be fine trust me

by Onyx Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:50 pm

Carlo Ancelotti appeared before the press a little over 24 hours before the second leg of their Champions League quarter-final. The Italian coach confirmed that “Ramos, Pepe and Coentrão will start”, and analysed the match against Borussia Dortmund:

“Playing the second leg of the quarter-final with the lead we have means I don't have to motivate the players. We're very close to the semi-finals and that's the best motivation possible. They have 90 minutes to score four goals and we have the same time to score one. The sooner we do it the quicker the tie will be over. I won't change the system”.

“We're only thinking about the win and we have to play our best football and try to repeat the game we had in the first leg. Our idea is the same as always: try to play our game, which is attacking, while also defending together. If you focus on doing your job well you do not think about failure”.

Cristiano Ronaldo's participation in the match
“He is being treated and yesterday he trained hard. We'll see what happens in training today and decide whether to take any risks. If he's 100% he'll play, otherwise he won't. All the matches he's played in, he has done so because he was fit. We have never taken risks with him or any other player”.

“For me, he always has to play and therefore he and I have the same idea, but if he's not fit he can't play. He is very professional and knows his body well. When he does not feel fit he says so. That's what happened in the match against Real Sociedad”.

Feeling great, physically and mentally
“We can end the season on a high. The defeats against Barcelona and Sevilla hurt us a lot, but the team responded well and we are feeling great in the face of the rest of the season”.

Bale's niggles
“Bale recovered well from a knock to the knee and has no problems playing tomorrow. The centre-backs will be Pepe and Ramos. Coentrão will also play but I'm already giving you too much information”.

The importance of Lewandowski
“It changes the match because he is a quality striker who has great presence and significance for the opponent. He strengthens Borussia Dortmund”.

by Onyx Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:51 pm

Goalkeepers : Casillas, Diego Lopez and Jesus.
Defenders : Varane, Pepe, Ramos, Coentrao, Carvajal and Nacho. Midfielders : Bale, Di Maria, Xabi Alonso, Casemiro, Modric, Isco, Illarra and Jose Rodriguez.
Forwards : Morata, Benzema Cristiano Ronaldo.

by Mamad Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:53 pm

Ronaldo left the training with pain according to news. he may not play.

by halamadrid2 Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:14 pm

Isco will probably start in place of him and DiMaria as the CM

by Onyx Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:38 pm

Carvajal accompanied Carlo Ancelotti in speaking to the press in Signal Iduna Park, where Real Madrid measure up against Borussia Dortmund on Tuesday. The Whites' defender discussed the second leg of their Champions League quarter-final: “This is practically a final.

The lead from the first leg is big, but not conclusive. They are going to come out and give their all and we are going to try and win and not speculate. This stadium puts pressure on you and the first 15 or 20 minutes will be crucial because they'll be lifted by their fans and will try to score and put pressure on the tie”.

“In the first leg they had chances and the defence will be key tomorrow, but we won't go out and sit back, we'll try and take the lead in the first half an hour. Despite everything, we're not going to let fly because they have to score three goals and even more so knowing the damage we can do with our pace and the firepower we have up front”.

Change in his personal situation
“It's only been a year, last year I was playing in Germany and tomorrow I could be on the pitch. It's an example of what you can get from hard work. It's a very important match and we'll approach it with verve and the intention of winning to get to the semi-finals”.

IT'S AN ATTRACTIVE CLASH BECAUSE OF THE OPPONENT AND A DIFFICULT ONE BECAUSE WE ARE PLAYING IN THIS STADIUM.
“As a White I'm really looking for that revenge and it showed in the first leg because the team threw themselves into it. We'll try to enjoy ourselves”.

Busquets' stamp on Pepe
“I'm not about to add fuel to the fire. The images are there and everyone can take what they will from them. I'm focusing on the match against Borussia Dortmund”.

by Onyx Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:46 pm

Gareth Bale is still wary of Borussia. The Welshman, who is “very happy at Real Madrid”, spoke about the Champions League quarterfinal second leg tie in an interview with the Bwin website: “Last Wednesday's match at home was great, we played well and deserved to win, but it will be a different game in Dortmund. They'll come out fighting and we have to approach it like any other game, looking to win it and seal our place in the semifinals”.

“I've never played in Signal Iduna Park, but I've seen it on TV and I've heard people talk about it. They say the atmosphere is incredible. We're professionals and we know how to go about our business. We'll approach it like we always do and try to win the match as we always do”.

Lewandowski
“He is a great player and has been showing that over the last few years, but we have to concentrate on our own job, like we did in the first leg, defending well. You can't do things any differently when you come up against other good attacking players. We have to defend well and I hope the team is at its best for this game”.

Cristiano Ronaldo and Benzema
“Obviously it is fantastic to play with great players like Cristiano Ronaldo and Karim Benzema, but it's not just us three. I think the whole team has played well throughout the season. So it's great to play with everyone, I'm really enjoying it”.
WE WANT TO WIN TITLES AND I'M HOPING THERE'LL BE SOME EXCITING TIMES AHEAD DURING THE END OF THE SEASON.
“It is hard to say what my favourite moment has been so far, but obviously getting a hat-trick in the Bernabéu was important for me on a personal level. We have reached a Cup final, so I'm hoping there'll be some exciting times ahead at the end of the season. We want to win titles".

A possible change in his playing style
“I don't think I've changed much. The style in Spain, in comparsion with the Premiership, is based more in keeping possession, but my style of play hasn't changed much. I'm very comfortable here”.

Which of his team mates has impressed him the most?
“I can't pick just one person. Everyone here has impressed me and I've enjoyed every minute. It's amazing to be able to train with world-class players on a daily basis. It is helping me lift my game and makes everyone a better player. I love training everyday and I try to improve all the time as a player”.

The key to winning the Tenth
“We have to take it one game at a time and not get too far ahead of ourselves. It is important to take it one step at a time and not get too distracted, otherwise things could go badly”.

by Onyx Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:41 pm

Weidenfeller - Piszczek, Friedrich, Hummels, Durm - Kirch, Jojic - Mkhitaryan, Großkreutz, Reus - Lewandowski

Casillas; Carvajal, Pepe, Ramos, Coentrão; Modric, Alonso, Illarra; Bale, Benzema, Di Maria.

by Cyborg Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:33 pm

I mean di maria is not even present

put him back in midfield, why even experiment with him there at this stage in the season when he has been so good on the left of midfield?

Alonso and illaramendi are a disaster together.

Alonso has made so many poor decisions

pepe just had to head the ball forward

why didn't bale or Alonso take the penalty? I have never seen di maria take a penaty!

by Cyborg Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:36 pm

take of illaramendi and put di maria back in midfield madrid need his energy and speed there!

bring on morata and play him on the forward right, at least he will fight for the ball when he doesnt have it and make forward runs on the counter attack.

by Cyborg Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:36 pm

do something ancelotti!

by Valkyrja Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:41 pm

Sell Cristiano we don't need him. We play better without him

by Cyborg Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:59 pm

if Madrid lose this tie after a 3-0 first leg result.

I would go mental.

but should I be surprised?

this side has never failed to disappoint for the past 9 years.

but still I support. come on!! score!

by FennecFox7 Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:46 pm

Yeah, soo.. where's all the people that say we play better without CR? Yeah? No CR, no danger in the box or behind the high line dortmund play. Bale is fast but actually can't run behind the defense well. Benz is a snail and is better with his back to goal

by FalcaoPunch Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:11 pm

Let's hope that Illara puts this game behind him. Because it was the worst 45 minutes to watch him play.

by Onyx Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:14 pm

Illarramendi should never play RCM/LCM again. He just isn't a B2B and he's slow and can't dribble, just like Alonso. The best position for him is Alonso's current position.

by Sponsored content