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Post by Cyborg on Tue May 07, 2013 10:46 pm

@Zealous wrote:Fair play to Jose, I'll always support the concept of letting the manager make decisions no questions asked. He's the guy on the chopping block when it's all said and done.


i dont know how anyone can argue against your point.

i like mourinho, i really hope that the team doesnt crumble when he leaves, because this team was in shambles before he came.

i hope the fans remember how poor we where before. some fans are either really fickle or have just started supporting the club.

i hope we can move on seamlessly and not have to go through a rough patch next . i hope iker learns from this as well.

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Post by Zealous on Wed May 08, 2013 12:23 am

This is Real Madrid we've won before Jose and we'll win after he's gone so us "crumbling" is not even an after thought in my mind.

However it'll be nice to see us be a football club instead of a soap opera for once. Even last season which was super awesome there was silly drama that was unneeded.

Quickest way to stop being a sopa opera is to let the coach do his job. The second some players become more important than others because of anything other than on pitch performances things will always take a turn for the worse.

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Post by Zealous on Wed May 08, 2013 12:27 am

@sportsczy wrote:Yeah, but at the end of the day, the team is for the fans of the club, the city and the country. Those are the stakeholders. You cannot have a manager that makes decisions that are completely contrary to everything your stakeholder base looks for.

Complete insensitivity and failure of leadership by Mou.

You're deluding yourself if you think those stakeholders don't look for titles first and foremost. If we were in the CL final all the cries for Mourinho's head would be silent.

This club exists to win, not to massage the hurt feelings of a grown man (who is paid millions per year)

Spoiler:
Funnily enough this can be applied to both Jose and Iker lol

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed May 08, 2013 1:09 am

I happen to think that Diego is awesome, he is better rounded than Ier and he did improved our defense when he got here. wouldnt mind seeing him in competition with Casillas next year, and if he kicks his butt then so be it.

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Post by FennecFox7 on Wed May 08, 2013 1:21 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:I happen to think that Diego is awesome, he is better rounded than Ier and he did improved our defense when he got here. wouldnt mind seeing him in competition with Casillas next year, and if he kicks his butt then so be it.

This

Casillas will have to win his spot fair and square
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Post by Zealous on Wed May 08, 2013 1:25 am

Casillas will be handed his spot back next season. I'd actually be very surprised if Diego is still here after the summer is over.

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Post by FalcaoPunch on Wed May 08, 2013 2:26 am

I can't stop thinking that once mou leaves Casillas will just be handed his spot back. I hope that isn't the case.

Lopez has been more than fantastic for us.
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Post by sportsczy on Wed May 08, 2013 6:45 am

You can't krep two top keepers on the same club. It happens..... nowhere. Not a single club. Thank you Diego. You were great. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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Post by sportsczy on Wed May 08, 2013 6:47 am

@Zealous wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:Yeah, but at the end of the day, the team is for the fans of the club, the city and the country. Those are the stakeholders. You cannot have a manager that makes decisions that are completely contrary to everything your stakeholder base looks for.

Complete insensitivity and failure of leadership by Mou.

You're deluding yourself if you think those stakeholders don't look for titles first and foremost. If we were in the CL final all the cries for Mourinho's head would be silent.

This club exists to win, not to massage the hurt feelings of a grown man (who is paid millions per year)

Spoiler:
Funnily enough this can be applied to both Jose and Iker lol

That true. But insulting the country of Spain, La Liga, the legends of the club and even the fans... winning can't even overcome that douchiness. Nevermind that Mou hasn't even won trophies at the average for Real Madrid and Iker is piling up trophies for Spain lol.

You don't live in a vacuum.

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Post by halamadrid2 on Wed May 08, 2013 10:53 am

VDB: Both Iker and I are sons of Real Madrid although some don't realize it or want to realize it. A good madridista should treat Iker with respect

:bow: :bow:

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Post by Zealous on Wed May 08, 2013 12:18 pm

A good Madridista should treat everyone with respect tbf.

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Post by chad4401 on Wed May 08, 2013 12:50 pm

@Zealous wrote:A good Madridista should treat everyone with respect tbf.

this

Iker should get benched when he sucks who cares if it Adan or Lopez btw aren't they also sons of madrid too? where is their respect?, screw the politics its getting tiresome im done with this topic, can't wait for the season to be over

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Post by sportsczy on Wed May 08, 2013 12:57 pm

Again... nobody said the benching was the issue. It's how Mou's gone about it. First, he doesn't even tell iker. Iker finds out 30mins before the game when the team sheet is released to the press for the game. Then, Mou said Adan was better than Iker, which is fair. But as soon as Lopez is bought, Adan is kicked to the curb. Poor kid got a depression and had to get clinical help (no joke).

And all the meanwhile, Mou takes swipes at Iker publicly. Iker never responded to it either, luckily for everyone.

You can't do that. It's crazy. We're not talking about some random player in Madrid. This is guy who was voted best goalkeeper in the world last year and best goalkeeper of the Euro just this past summer. This is a hero of Spain.

You can be a prick to Benzema and get away with it... but not Iker Casillas. No way.

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Post by halamadrid2 on Wed May 08, 2013 2:11 pm

Imagine if somebody like Benitez went into Barca and completely disrespected Puyol and Xavi. They would react just the same I imagine

You just don't treat a legend like that, much less one who has won best goalie of the year award five times in a row. I think his form deteriorating and Mou going bonkers can be seen as a correlation. Mou had issues with our club from the start with all the Valdano stuff etc. It is pretty amazing how one person could have caused this much turmoil in a club like ours. Wonder whether Perez feels bad about giving Mourinho total control now

If somebody made a timeline of bad things happening since Mourinho took over, Ikers name would crop up at the end. Mourinho did so much damage before that. It is hard not to blame this seasons trouble on Mourinho with his track record

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Post by Le Samourai on Wed May 08, 2013 2:12 pm

Any coach using the media to take shots at any player on his own team (which he's done multiple times) far it's captain - is a disgrace. The mere fact that people need to ask for decorum in this situation is stupid - it's a given if you want any chance at avoiding media sensationalism and a turbulent season.

Further, as far as Adan goes, a coach should try to win games, not

A. Use them to attempt a grab for political leverage.
B. Force a transfer.

Which were the sole 2 things he had to gain by playing Adan.

It was lucky Iker got injured this year - this nonsense with Adan would have continued and we would be the laughing stock of Spain. Iker got to sit out the season and did the best thing he could possibly do in such a difficult situation -remove himself from all the picture - gave the media nothing....and we got a good on the pitch replacement. Then, when we needed him to be a captain and provide us with some inspiration - he provided it.

The sole reason we're sitting here talking about this is that Mourinhio can't take his failure like a man, and he has to go out insulting everyone another time for good measure. So yay, we get to gloss over his historical stupidity.

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Post by Zealous on Wed May 08, 2013 3:29 pm

Trust me I'm not crazy about Mou atm either. Dude could have handled this way better and he shouldn't be surprised that people are going at him on a daily basis now.

However I maintain that benching Iker for a better preforming goalkeeper should not be seen as a disgrace.. I actively and fully support that decision,

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Post by halamadrid2 on Wed May 08, 2013 3:41 pm

Ikers form could have improved. Ronaldo went months playing like a third division player last season and there was no talk of replacing him. Sure he wasn't performing but you don't bench him for that reason because he has shown what he is capable of and probably needed a sit down with mou to discuss his form. But no Mou wast too cowardy to do that and instead went about it the wrong way and for that I will hate him

Although I have to admit this was only the final nail in the coffin for me because I wasn't happy how he treated our castilla players Proud

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Post by sportsczy on Wed May 08, 2013 4:08 pm

Not to mention Ozil and Di Maria HM2... those guys always got the chance to prove themselves because they had a higher ceiling that anyone that was playing for them (Kaka, Modric, Callejon, etc). Believe me, Iker has a higher ceiling than any keeper alive and he was at the ceiling less than 6 months before. Yet somehow, he doesn't get a chance to find himself again.

Absolutely freakin disgraceful.

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Post by halamadrid2 on Wed May 08, 2013 4:13 pm

I agree couple that with mou commenting on how he wanted iker to win the golden ball in 2011 yet now wished he had signed Diego in his first season. This is a case of mou trying to show he is the boss and everybody else his biatches but failed

I think this whole situation is politically motivated and Mourinho went into a war fully knowing he would come out of it with lost limbs and for that good riddance

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Post by Doc on Wed May 08, 2013 4:54 pm

So we can agree that neither of us would be changing our respective opinions on this matter.

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Post by Zealous on Wed May 08, 2013 5:02 pm

@Doc wrote:So we can agree that neither of us would be changing our respective opinions on this matter.

Honestly I think we all agree with each other more or less. It's just the shades of grey are darker or brighter depending on who you ask.

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Post by Le Samourai on Wed May 08, 2013 5:07 pm

@Zealous wrote:Trust me I'm not crazy about Mou atm either. Dude could have handled this way better and he shouldn't be surprised that people are going at him on a daily basis now.

However I maintain that benching Iker for a better preforming goalkeeper should not be seen as a disgrace.. I actively and fully support that decision,

No problem.

However, that was clearly not the case as Adan was worse. This wasn't a decision that was actively motivated by who can perform better on the pitch.

So I'm more questioning the relevance rather than the validity of what you say. That situation is different and I'd probably give Iker more leeway than you since he's pretty much always been game when things are on the line - but I can understand your perspective.
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Post by Zealous on Wed May 08, 2013 5:24 pm

Thing is though when Adan obviously fcked up when given the chance (got sent off at the Bernabeu) Mou made Iker starter again. So on the face of it, it did seem like an attempt to get Iker motivated. It was poorly handled but I think giving Adan a shot wasn't a terrible idea on paper, poor Antonio just totally messed up.

Now Iker is the substitute and he deserves a shot as well, it's only fair after all but that can only come if Diego is obviously not playing well. Problem is Jose said "Diego is always starter under normal conditions" and that is something I don't agree with at all. If you want to justify benching someone for on pitch performance then you have to keep the same standards for all.

As for giving Iker more leeway than me I'm not really sure what that's supposed to mean. Iker's awesome and a club legend, if we had a hall of fame he'd be first ballot guaranteed and I'm just a fan talking about stuff on the internet. That doesn't mean he should be above the rest of the team whether he is game when it's for all the marbles. That's just my opinion take it for what it is.

Iker is a symbol of this club and no one can deny that but the only symbol that should truly matter is this one:



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Post by Pedram on Wed May 08, 2013 5:29 pm

@chad4401 wrote:
@Zealous wrote:A good Madridista should treat everyone with respect tbf.

this

Iker should get benched when he sucks who cares if it Adan or Lopez btw aren't they also sons of madrid too? where is their respect?, screw the politics its getting tiresome im done with this topic, can't wait for the season to be over

I'm with you on this one chad, i hate it when politics play a big role in football decisions.

It would be very ungrateful and unfair to Diego Lopez if he gets sold this summer or benched right away from the start next season, he deserves more respect for filling Iker's void at the most crucial part of the season.
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Post by guest7 on Wed May 08, 2013 6:19 pm

Seriously, anyone saying Diego doesn't deserve to start right now is stupid. Iker is being rightfully benched, and that he is using all his friends to stir up trouble to get his starting spot back is ridiculous.

Imagine the pressure Lopez is feeling right now. I wish this could stop just for the sake of Lopez, he doesn't deserve to be talked like this. The guy has shown that he is a class keeper that deserves respect, and this talk isn't giving him any.
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Post by Adit on Wed May 08, 2013 6:26 pm

Nope. Lopez shouldnt be a starter next season. A season were a player had internal problems with the manager is not a right season to measure the player.Players are not robots,performance is obviously going to drop.

Lopez is just a passing fad.The fact Lopez at his best doesnt come anywhere near close to Iker on form and we need iker at his best.

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