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Besides penos is Penaldo Top 5 attacker in Real Madrid this season?

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Post by Harmonica on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:23 am

Top 5 attacker in Real Madrid this season?

Penalties given to those that earned them:

Besides penos is Penaldo Di-ZD1Z
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Post by Mamad on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:59 am

Benzema, Ozil and Di Maria = Goats.

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Post by paperbackwriter on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:19 am

The logic is flawed since Ronaldo is the only player out of all of them who play 90 minutes in almost every game while the others play 40-70 minutes per game. mostly as seen by this simple math:

Ronaldo 2720/31 = 87,8 minutes/game
Özil 2106/31 = 68 minutes/game
Di Maria 1290/20 = 64,5 minutes/game
Benzema 1961/31 = 63,3 minutes/game
Higuain 1541/32 = 48,2 minutes/game
Kaká 1147/24 = 47,8 minutes/game
Callejon 845/20 = 42,3 minutes/game

All of the above except Ronaldo have been in the position where you get on to the pitch with Real Madrid in a 2-3 goal lead and the opposition already tired and morally beaten. Adding a second assist or goal to the party in a game that is dead against opposition without spirit.

Also it's easier to make an impact when you play 50 minutes in average since you don't need to conserve your energy over 90 minutes and thus can take more initiatives, runs and so on.

This is why the whole G+A/90min stats logic is very flawed. As if it's easier to get great numbers when you play the whole game every game compared to being subbed in in the second half. It's rather the opposite actually. Especially in a team like Madrid where everybody wants to go forwardad all game. If Higuain consistently gets subbed in when Real Madrid have the lead in the 60th minute and adds one goal or assist to the teams tally. Then he gets a whooping 1 G+A every 30 minutes from those games. He can even afford to score/assist every other game and still get one every 60th minute.

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Post by Harmonica on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:31 am

I agree you on that it's harder to be as effective more you play, because you have less energy per match. But still, that is pretty shocking statistics.

Compared to Barcelona, where Messi plays almost every match, and is still the most effective player by quite a margin.

Penalties given to those that earned them:

Besides penos is Penaldo Di-TJH7

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Post by paperbackwriter on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:26 am

jiopsi wrote:I agree you on that it's harder to be as effective more you play, because you have less energy per match. But still, that is pretty shocking statistics.

Compared to Barcelona, where Messi plays almost every match, and is still the most effective player by quite a margin.

Penalties given to those that earned them:

Besides penos is Penaldo Di-TJH7

Most players in Barcelona are playing more as support players around Messi. The team is built around him both being the one who take risky passes and shots. Almost everybody in Barcelona are pretty passive offensively to contain possession and keep dictating tempo. Until they manage to create enough space for Messi to do what he does. While in Madrid the whole team is more direct, the team is not at all as much built around Ronaldo as Barcelona is around Messi. Everybody in the front 4 have the freedom to finish and hit risky passes. Keeping possession/dictating the tempo is not a goal i in itself at all.

Fabregas is the only other really direct player in Barcelona, out of old habits. Which have actually created doubt about him fitting into the team and system.

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Post by Le Samourai on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:30 am

@paperbackwriter wrote:
jiopsi wrote:I agree you on that it's harder to be as effective more you play, because you have less energy per match. But still, that is pretty shocking statistics.

Compared to Barcelona, where Messi plays almost every match, and is still the most effective player by quite a margin.

Penalties given to those that earned them:

Besides penos is Penaldo Di-TJH7

Most players in Barcelona are playing more as support players around Messi. The team is built around him both being the one who take risky passes and shots. Almost everybody in Barcelona are pretty passive offensively to contain possession and keep dictating tempo. Until they manage to create enough space for Messi to do what he does. While in Madrid the whole team is more direct, the team is not at all as much built around Ronaldo as Barcelona is around Messi. Everybody in the front 4 have the freedom to finish and hit risky passes. Keeping possession/dictating the tempo is not a goal i in itself at all.

Fabregas is the only other really direct player in Barcelona, out of old habits. Which have actually created doubt about him fitting into the team and system.

For a Reason.

The more Ronaldo understands and accepts a limited role the better the team plays.

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Post by paperbackwriter on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:39 am

@Le Samourai wrote:
@paperbackwriter wrote:
jiopsi wrote:I agree you on that it's harder to be as effective more you play, because you have less energy per match. But still, that is pretty shocking statistics.

Compared to Barcelona, where Messi plays almost every match, and is still the most effective player by quite a margin.

Penalties given to those that earned them:

Besides penos is Penaldo Di-TJH7

Most players in Barcelona are playing more as support players around Messi. The team is built around him both being the one who take risky passes and shots. Almost everybody in Barcelona are pretty passive offensively to contain possession and keep dictating tempo. Until they manage to create enough space for Messi to do what he does. While in Madrid the whole team is more direct, the team is not at all as much built around Ronaldo as Barcelona is around Messi. Everybody in the front 4 have the freedom to finish and hit risky passes. Keeping possession/dictating the tempo is not a goal i in itself at all.

Fabregas is the only other really direct player in Barcelona, out of old habits. Which have actually created doubt about him fitting into the team and system.

For a Reason.

The more Ronaldo understands and accepts a limited role the better the team plays.

It's not about limiting Ronaldo because he's harmful himself. He was great in the season with Pellegrini when we played him and Higuain as two strikers. When we needed somobody who carried the offense. Since nobody else performed (except him and Higuain) numbers in the final third. It's about the fact that we now have an all out very talented team where everyone who can and do play in the front 4 should take equal responsibility. Ronaldo and the team benefits from this. Ronaldo become less predictable when he doesn't go for the finish all the time and the opposition can't focus on containing him in the same way since there's an equal chance that Di Maria/Özil/Benzema/Kaká/Higuain hit a killar ball or get into a finishing position. And Ronaldo can focus on what he does best when the others get time to shine on the ball. Meaning moving into space to get a great finishing position or to combine with other players.

Overall, we can't have a talisman if we want to play great direct football since you can't play direct football with a limited number of players who are allowed/supposed to go direct.

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Post by Le Samourai on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:43 am

@paperbackwriter wrote:Goal + Assist / Minute.

Ronaldo 2720/32 = 87,8
Özil 2106/23 = 105.8
Di Maria 1290/20 = 64,5
Benzema 1961/31 = 63,3
Higuain 1541/22 = 70
Kaká 1147/14 = 81.9
Callejon 845/13 = 65/color]
.

Thumbs up

Edit Yes paper back writer.


Last edited by Le Samourai on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:59 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by paperbackwriter on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:49 am

@Le Samourai wrote:
@paperbackwriter wrote:

Ronaldo 2720/32 = 87,8 minutes/game
Özil 2106/23 = 105.8 minutes/game
Di Maria 1290/20 = 64,5 minutes/game
Benzema 1961/31 = 63,3 minutes/game
Higuain 1541/22 = 70 minutes/game
Kaká 1147/14 = 81.9 minutes/game
Callejon 845/13 = 65 minutes/game

.

Thumbs up


Wtf, you're not calculating minutes/game but minutes/G+A, which is what Jiopsi did?

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Post by Jeps33178 on Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:01 pm

jiopsi wrote:Top 5 attacker in Real Madrid this season?

Penalties given to those that earned them:

Besides penos is Penaldo Di-ZD1Z

Crappy troll is crappy

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Post by LeVersacci on Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:26 pm

@ijomer wrote:barca section 7 blocks thissss wayy vvvvvvv Wink
:lucas:
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Post by Jack Daniels on Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:25 am

Don't see any trolling in the OP.

Even though I believe he is still our best weapon there are certain points that make people doubt that and that is just what Jiopsi illustrated.. Now it's just up to you to vote yes or no.

Simple as that.
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Post by Guest on Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:43 am

It simply makes no sense to remove penalties and simply add them to other players.

As we see with Messi scoring penalties is a skill not everyone is good at, nor one that everyone can do.

Here's a stat for you:
In LigaBBVA, Ronaldo has been involved in 42.25% of all our goals.

Not to mention the amount of space he opens up for other goals to be scored.

The OP is utter rubbish

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Post by Harmonica on Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:20 am

@Crimson wrote:It simply makes no sense to remove penalties and simply add them to other players.
It makes perfect sense, if you judge overall open play.

As we see with Messi scoring penalties is a skill not everyone is good at, nor one that everyone can do.
It's a skill, and it's a easiest, most cowardly way to score a goal, expecially when somebody gives it to you. Messi has obtained himself 3 of four penalty goals he have, same as Penaldo from his 10.

Here's a stat for you:
In LigaBBVA, Ronaldo has been involved in 42.25% of all our goals.
What makes no sense, is to make stats like these in one particular competition only. You played four.

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Post by Guest on Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:52 am

jiopsi wrote:
@Crimson wrote:It simply makes no sense to remove penalties and simply add them to other players.
It makes perfect sense, if you judge overall open play.

No it doesn't because the others obviously arte not as good at penalties. Taking penalties is a skill and a skill that Ronaldo is one of the best of in the world.

It's a skill, and it's a easiest, most cowardly way to score a goal, expecially when somebody gives it to you. Messi has obtained himself 3 of four penalty goals he have, same as Penaldo from his 10.

Easiest? Really? Try watching Messi because for the supposed best player in the world it ain't that easy. Cowardly? Now your just being stupid and opinionated nothing more.

What makes no sense, is to make stats like these in one particular competition only. You played four.

We have played 3 competitions, LigaBBVA being the one which we have played the most games and which we currently have a 7 point advantage. It goes to show how important he has been in getting this advantage.

It is clear from your responses your simply trolling and clearly upset at your fanboi Messi being craptacular at taking penalties.

Get over it and move on

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Post by Harmonica on Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:08 am

jiopsi wrote:
@Crimson wrote:It simply makes no sense to remove penalties and simply add them to other players.
It makes perfect sense, if you judge overall open play.

No it doesn't because the others obviously arte not as good at penalties. Taking penalties is a skill and a skill that Ronaldo is one of the best of in the world.
How do you even know that? Scoring from penaties is the easiest form of scoring, and you only have to be on the pitch to take penalties, doesn't matter what you were doing. And this thread was about comparing the open play.

It's a skill, and it's a easiest, most cowardly way to score a goal, expecially when somebody gives it to you. Messi has obtained himself 3 of four penalty goals he have, same as Penaldo from his 10.
Easiest? Really? Try watching Messi because for the supposed best player in the world it ain't that easy. Cowardly? Now your just being stupid and opinionated nothing more.
Even Messi has 75% conversion rate from penalties, please do tell in witch scoring style he has better rate? Is there anything more cowardly, than when you're on 1on1 and preferably dive for penalty than try to score, or if someone else obtains the penalty from hard work, and when you are winning 5-0 etc, you come take all the glory from it?

What makes no sense, is to make stats like these in one particular competition only. You played four.

We have played 3 competitions, LigaBBVA being the one which we have played the most games and which we currently have a 7 point advantage. It goes to show how important he has been in getting this advantage.
You've played four competitions, Supercopa, Copa Del Rey, La Liga and UCL. There is no point to compare players in one competition when you play for win in every one.

It is clear from your responses your simply trolling and clearly upset at your fanboi Messi being craptacular at taking penalties.

Get over it and move on
Trolling? In future try to be on topic.

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Post by Babun on Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:21 am

@Jiopsi, you ignore one majour point. The team isn't CR7 based this season. He plays like a regular winger who cuts inside, he even tracks back eco smile
Messi is still the CF and the total focal point of current Farca Very Happy

As for which concept is more successful... 7 points and he scored in both clasicos which weren't penos by the way eco smile

Also, your point about 'deserving' penos is bullshit. Messi's penalty miss against Sevilla put all the pressure on Farca to begin with. I don't care who takes the penos as long as they're converted masterfully. Anyone with some brains would think similarly Very Happy

Real Madrid > CR7

P.S. you fail even as ninja troll eco smile

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Post by Harmonica on Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:29 am

Kamina, do you think Penaldo has been Top 5 attacker in RMA this season, based on open play? How highly do you rate his open play in RMA on this season?


Last edited by jiopsi on Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest on Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:42 am

Boring troll is boring

To put this to bed, on top of the 24 goals in La Liga, Ronaldo is alos our third most creative player on the pitch contributing 1.6 key passes per game and a massive 34 chances created to go with his 6 assists, thats more than Di Maria and Xabi Alonso. In fact the only player who has created more chances for his team mates is Ozil with 48.

Lets not forget the fact that Ronaldo routinely takes 2 defenders out of the equation in every attacking move, allowing us more space in the box and on top of that causing defenders to make rash challenges.

We have scored over 70 goals this season in LigaBBVA (the most ever in the history of the league at this stage) and had the most successful group stage performance in the history of the UCL all of which would not be possible without CR7.

To say otherwise is simply stupid and trolling which the OP obviously is.

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Post by Harmonica on Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:47 am

@Crimson wrote:Boring troll is boring

To put this to bed, on top of the 24 goals in La Liga, Ronaldo is alos our third most creative player on the pitch contributing 1.6 key passes per game and a massive 34 chances created to go with his 6 assists, thats more than Di Maria and Xabi Alonso. In fact the only player who has created more chances for his team mates is Ozil with 48.
And 9 of those 24 goals were awarded to him by some of his team mates (7) or referees (2). Of course it's more than Di Maria, he has played over two times as much.

Lets not forget the fact that Ronaldo routinely takes 2 defenders out of the equation in every attacking move, allowing us more space in the box and on top of that causing defenders to make rash challenges.
Now that is first real argument you produce in this debate. And I agree, Penaldo greates space for others.

We have scored over 70 goals this season in LigaBBVA (the most ever in the history of the league at this stage) and had the most successful group stage performance in the history of the UCL all of which would not be possible without CR7.
You also have the most penalties at this stage? 9. Isn't it also a record?

To say otherwise is simply stupid and trolling which the OP obviously is.
You are one sweet kid, how about trying to debate without the insults?

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Post by Guest on Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:48 am

Try not ignoring the main part of my debates then lmao

You basically ignored the main focal point of that argument nice, which you have done in the last 3 of my posts lmao

boring troll is boring

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Post by Harmonica on Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:50 am

@Crimson wrote:Try not ignoring the main part of my debates then lmao

You basically ignored the main focal point of that argument nice, which you have done in the last 3 of my posts lmao

boring troll is boring
Try actually debating like an adult for a change.

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Post by Guest on Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:22 pm

jiopsi wrote:
@Crimson wrote:Try not ignoring the main part of my debates then lmao

You basically ignored the main focal point of that argument nice, which you have done in the last 3 of my posts lmao

boring troll is boring
Try actually debating like an adult for a change.

Can't really debate something when you ignore all my points

Which is why you are simply trolling

@Crimson wrote:To put this to bed, on top of the 24 goals in La Liga, Ronaldo is alos our third most creative player on the pitch contributing 1.6 key passes per game and a massive 34 chances created to go with his 6 assists, thats more than Di Maria and Xabi Alonso. In fact the only player who has created more chances for his team mates is Ozil with 48.

/thread

and here I thought trolling was against forum rules

JD? Someone anyone?

I bet if I posted something like this on the Barcelona forum and responded like this to every post I would be banned in a second


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Post by Harmonica on Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:31 pm

@Crimson wrote:To put this to bed, on top of the 24 goals in La Liga, Ronaldo is alos our third most creative player on the pitch contributing 1.6 key passes per game and a massive 34 chances created to go with his 6 assists, thats more than Di Maria and Xabi Alonso. In fact the only player who has created more chances for his team mates is Ozil with 48.

/thread
How is that /thread? Not only is that only in 1 competition of 4, he has scored 9 of 24 goals, almost 40% from the spot, and which 7 out of 9 were handed to him by his teammates. 34 chances created, more than Di Maria? Well obviously when he plays more, a lot more. Di Maria has 14 assists in La Liga, which is over double more than Penaldo, with even less than half the time in the pitch.

and here I thought trolling was against forum rules

JD? Someone anyone?

I bet if I posted something like this on the Barcelona forum and responded like this to every post I would be banned in a second


@Jack Daniels wrote:Don't see any trolling in the OP.

Even though I believe he is still our best weapon there are certain points that make people doubt that and that is just what Jiopsi illustrated.. Now it's just up to you to vote yes or no.

Simple as that.

And I didn't post this here, it got moved from the general section.

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Post by Guest on Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:45 pm

jiopsi wrote:
@Crimson wrote:To put this to bed, on top of the 24 goals in La Liga, Ronaldo is alos our third most creative player on the pitch contributing 1.6 key passes per game and a massive 34 chances created to go with his 6 assists, thats more than Di Maria and Xabi Alonso. In fact the only player who has created more chances for his team mates is Ozil with 48.

/thread
How is that /thread? Not only is that only in 1 competition of 4, he has scored 9 of 24 goals, almost 40% from the spot, and which 7 out of 9 were handed to him by his teammates. 34 chances created, more than Di Maria? Well obviously when he plays more, a lot more. Di Maria has 14 assists in La Liga, which is over double more than Penaldo, with even less than half the time in the pitch.

again and again with this one competition thing really?

Ok here we go:

In La Liga:
Ronaldo just in pure key passes per game is rated third in the entire squad of Madrid. Down to pure numbers he is second only to Ozil in the amount of chances created for other team mates.

He has been involved in 42.25% of all our goals scored.

In the greatest ever group stage performance in the UCL:
Ronaldo grabbed 3 goals and 2 assists and was directly involved in 26.31% of all goals scored despite playing in only 4 of the 6 games.

On top of that he created 2.8 key passes per game, directly setting up his team mates 11 times in just 4 games. In comparison Di Maria only avg. 2 per game and Ozil 3.2.


Get over it your theory is debunked

Ronaldo = awesome

jump on your trolling bike and run back to your own section




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