El Clasico at Santiago Bernabeu

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Post by futbol_bill Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:23 pm

Gladiator wrote:BTW guys, this IS VERY INTERESTING:

"2Pep just finished his press conference. For cules who understand Spanish, read through @Guardiolato or @OpinionCule timelines on Twitter, very interesting pressy. Judging from what he said, I also think it'll be a 3-4-3 now. My prediction would be this:

Valdés

Piqué - Mascherano - Abidal

Busquets

Xavi - Iniesta

Alves --------------- Cesc --------------- Alexis

Messi"

Bring it on, we will kill the notion of 3 man defense.

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Post by estrella bernabeu Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:25 pm

I don't understand what he said !!!
How did you get he will start with a 3-4-3 ?
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Post by guest7 Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:26 pm

What did Pep say that suggests a 3-man backline?

I couldn't find anything in Marca, really.
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Post by futbol_bill Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:34 pm

I didn´t see interview and both AS and Marca have columns about his conference but say nothing about potential formation - lineup. The lineup above was Gladiator´s prediction. In any event, let´s hope Pep is dumb enough to try a 3 man defense. It will be to our advantage particularly if we start with the pressing game. By the way Pep did say in interview that he expected Madrid to begin game pressing so I would think the 3 man defense is Gladiators idea only.


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Post by estrella bernabeu Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:35 pm

IMO, Pep is not as stupid to try this against Madrid in casa.
He should get balls to do it :coffee:
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Post by Mr Nick09 Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:38 pm

Pep will play the 3 players at the back, with Alves wide in the midfield, so that he can go back to his 433 if he is getting owned.

That's why there is a chance that Ozil doesnt start. Mourinho has been playing him deep to prepare for this i think, i dont know if Mourinho will trust him.

But i keep in mind that Mourinho can also use Di Maria like a CM, giving that his work rate is ridiculous.
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Post by estrella bernabeu Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:50 pm

Pep said they play all for all in this match.
Hope Mou has something to get the 3 pts. Winning will be a hard blow to Barcelona.
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Post by ijomer Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:01 pm

Ozil in a deep role is so inefficient. His best/effective position is SS or AM, that is very clear.

That being said, Coentrao is a better defender in the back, but lacks chemistry with Ronaldo on the left flank going forward, that Marcelo undoubtedly has.

Coentrao does have immense stamina and defensive/attacking skills, which will be very helpful in the midfield to dispossess Barcelona and start a sudden and very quick counter attack.


Ozil will NOT play if we do indeed play 4-3-3. That spot will be of Coentrao.

Also Arbeloa not fit enough to start a game of this magnitude after being subbed off against Ajax for feeling discomfort, therefore, Lass is our best bet.

Lass and Coentrao can very well be inter switched as a RB/Midfielder.
Left footed Right back who can cut in would be Coentrao.
Right footed bull dog chasing, rough and full of energy player would be Lass.

Therefore:



El Clasico at Santiago Bernabeu - Page 14 091211210051

OR

just change lass-coentrao positions.
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Post by H.A. Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:05 pm

Just checked marca, they caved in and posted the defensive 4-3-3 line-up as their predicted line-up. Take it with a grain of salt though Very Happy

[If you were wondering which line-up I'm talking about you can view it here: http://goo.gl/OLaQZ ]
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Post by Mr Nick09 Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:12 pm

I say, Di Maria will play in the midfield, deeper than usual.
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Post by futbol_bill Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:14 pm

It´s pretty obvious we are starting game pressing and then if we get lead by half, we will go more defensive.

Before we agree to disagree on starting line-up, let's discuss a few items
1. What was our line-up and formation when we have tried the pressing game.
2. Coentrao playing entire game vs Ajax pretty well rules him out of starting line-up although he is more than likely to get into line-up in 2nd half.
3. How bad is Arbeloa. Mou said he only took him off to avoid injury. If he is healthy he is a better fit than either Lass or Coentrao.
4. @Nick, I didn't hear Mou say definitely Lass would be starting only that he will likely play. I still think he will come on in 2nd half when we become more defensive.

I think we are all in agreement that Casillas, Pepe, Ramos, Alonso, Khedira, Di Maria, Benz and CR7 start and Higgy coming on in 2nd half. What is debateable is the exact formation (1st half) and whether or not it contains Ozil, Lass, Arbeloa, Coentrao or Marcelo. I don't see(nor have I seen any comments) about anyone else potentially starting.

By the way, there are a number of survey out today in which Madristras overwhelmingly have said no to trivote (Lass, Khedira, Alonso). We want to take them on head on.
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Post by BarcaLearning Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:17 pm

Just to spice things up a little, here is a great article I thought (cant post link for 7 days Razz), I'll qoute:

"I don't write this as a neutral fan of the beautiful game but as a Culé, I will however try to remain as unbiased as possible considering the circumstances under which I write this. Wednesday was a farce, in that both teams chose to claim before the game that it didn't really matter if we won the trophy or not. A farce because inspite of both teams putting out their strongest 11, there wasn't any mention of "it's just an over hyped friendly" till AFTER we beat Madrid.

What is even crazier is when fans bought into this as an excuse when their team lost. Jose Mourinho a.k.a the translator, jumped at the opportunity to tell the world that what happened was, a great team like Real Madrid playing a "small" team like F.C. Barcelona and they only lost because the ball boys disappeared. Vanished. Did a houdini, call it what you will. Anything but admit that what actually happened of course was a tiny part of a story of a ball boy in a stadium belonging to a "small" team.



This ball boy, can only be referred to as blessed by the Gods, If anybody (except Madrid fans) were to see the way his life turned out. Indeed, this ball boy who was being educated about 150 metres from the stadium that he worked in was destined for great things. He grew up playing football, he grew up to lead a "small" team to the finals of the European Cup. He grew up with a doctrine, one that he would in the future, represent, just by -being!

This ball boy, after leading that "small" team to several trophies in his time as a player, decided he wanted to try his hand at managing. In 2008, after earning a promotion and becoming the manager of the senior squad, he led that small team to the Bernabeu and destroyed them, 2-6. A couple of years later he beat that same team at home 5-0 not to mention the few victories in between.

How many times does the ball boy have to teach that great team a lesson before you reverse the roles?

People will say many things about this year's Spanish Supercopa, how the better team didn't win, how that "small" team has a tendency to rush a referee, how that "small" team's players dive because, obviously, a scissor kick from behind with absolutely no intention to get the ball, is nothing right? Cesc Fabregas was expected to stay upright? Iker Casillas, was one of the very few players I liked and respected in Madrid. No longer. I don't doubt his skills as a goalkeeper, he is the best. Yes, I said it. I believe Casillas is better than Victor Valdes but only slightly but as the captain of the Spanish National Team, I expected a lot more.

That "small" team might have won a pointless trophy, but is it too much to ask the translator to try and lose with a little dignity? He claims the ball boys disappeared? News flash Mourinho: he was standing right next to you and beat Madrid with a less than fully fit squad playing football! Oh and this is football, the better team does not always win! There is a huge difference between being a good team and being champions. Spirit. The idea that we can lose against any team, but we will take that loss and keep trying. Leave the referees, the opponents, UNICEF, UEFA and Mel Gibson's conspiracy theories out of it, when you lose, say it. The respect that you can earn by being gracious in defeat is part of what makes a sport, a sport.

Until recently, I was inclined to believe that Sir Alex Ferguson was the older version of Mourinho in many ways. He knows how to manipulate the media and play mind games with the opponent before a game. But the way he handled his team's defeat at Wembley, was amazing. This was the second time he had lost to Barca and yet there wasn't any talk of bad decisions or venom. In it's place was a calm determined look, one of respect for the opponents and a profound belief that "we can beat them". Maybe, not this time but we have what it takes and we look forward to the next time.

Whether Madridstas believe it or not, your coach represent the club more than anybody else. I can never undermine the great pride I have in my club's image because of Pep Guardiola. That ex-ball boy is all class, he never talks bad about a rival. Even with Madrid, he gives all the respect the club deserves but even more important is how he does that even with the other "small" teams. If Mourinho were to ever read this rant of mine: you will never succeed Ferguson (as manager of United) for this reason, alone. You are probably among the top 5 when it comes to tactics. You will probably be remembered as one of the great coaches of our time but when you leave, your team seems to implode. That isn't me giving you credit for how great a coach you are.

People will only talk about how great Mourinho's conquests have been. I, personally, don't hear much about the "great Inter Milan" side of 09/10. Legacy, a word it seems that the translator doesn't understand or care for. Ferguson has left his with Manchester United, Pep with Barca as a player and coach. Mourinho, however, is remembered for the trophies HE has won and the hooliganism (for lack of a better word) he encourages in his teams.

El Clasico could become great. The two biggest teams of Spain and probably the world with arguably, the two best coaches in Europe fighting it out. It could have been a spectacle like never before. However, with the arrival of the translator and the advent of a style of football which includes fouling a player to an extent as witnessed on Wednesday, has degraded the clasico to levels that I, personally, have not seen before.

I honestly believe that both teams were to blame for that night. Marcelo's foul deserved a red card, there is no question about it. If any of the Madrid fans believe otherwise, well, ignorance is bliss. However, I don't think Barca should have rushed the area and the referee. Madrid and their (highly susceptible to temper flares) defenders simply gave in to the pressure of conceding an all important goal 3 mins from extra time. If the game had reached extra time, I'm willing to admit that Barca would have lost just by comparing the fitness levels of both teams. But that didn't happen did it? Lionel Messi being the greatest player the world has seen (yes, I think hes better than Maradona and Pele were even if he hasn't won the World Cup) popped up and did what he does best. A beautiful left-footed volley that put an end to Madrid's dream of winning that "useless" trophy. We scored and that was that. So alright, they gave in and did what they could, which is foul. Alright, our team might be to blame for giving in to the pressure and reacting to that foul.

What excuse does Mourinho have? Eye gouging Barca's assistant coach was uncalled for. As a coach, your team and the club will be judged for your mistakes. The translator cannot take credit for trophies won and choose to relinquish responsibility if his team loses! Man up and lose with some dignity for God's sake. He would have got a lot more respect from even our fans if he had just said "We were unlucky and congratulations to Barca". Didn't we do the same when we lost the Copa del Rey? If that isn't reason enough, a good word from Mourinho would have done wonders to calm fans from both teams. It's a shame really, but since Wednesday, Jose Mourinho has in my books become the most disgusting species of vermin that has ever represented any sport. All his virtues as a coach will not change the fact, in the end : A ball boy turned out to be the true champion." - from barcablaugranes


What really disgusts me Mourinho is how badly he takes defeat, shows no class, and all his antics with the press and his dramas, he just cant compare with Guardiola as a man, who is always respectful, despite all the crazy provocations and down right dirty fouls from Mourinho and Real players...Mourinho may be a top coach, but that aspect will always leave him a bad name Very Happy
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Post by estrella bernabeu Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:19 pm

CR should move his ass and defend when the whole squad is defending and press when all players are pressing. He can get Marcelo job very easy, he's solid has a good shape and he can stand for 90mn in a 100% capacity.
I believe he can make runs around the pitch from defense to attack.
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Post by Mr. Festim Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:19 pm

So according to the latest reports we are going to play 4-3-3. My prefered line up would be this:

--------------------------------------------Casillas-------------------------------------------

Arbeloa------------------------Pepe----------------Sergio-----------------------Marcelo


---------------------------------------------Alonso

-------------------------------Lass---------------------Coentrao

Di Maria----------------------------------------------------------------------------Ronaldo

------------------------------------------Benzema


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Post by H.A. Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:20 pm

He'll basically have to defend 3/4 of the right wing, aid the midfield, initiate attacks in both flanks and possibly act as an AM if necessary lol Razz

But yes I really think he will play deeper than usual to help the midfield. My only fear is if Ozil [or kaka] are dropped and our attack looks bland as a result. I'm sure, or at least hope, we've got that covered
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Post by S32TABLANCA Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:23 pm

4-3-3s, 3-4-3s, conferences and press hints... the mind games this clasico are intense.
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Post by estrella bernabeu Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:23 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:

Spice up what !!! who's gonna read this novel :coffee:
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Post by The Lizard King Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:25 pm

Thought you guys might enjoy this as well ( if it hasn't been posted already ). Enjoy Smile



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Post by futbol_bill Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:26 pm

I would agree with a few of your comments, but Mou has changed his antics / attitude dramactically since that game, whether it be from self analaysis, conversation with perez or rumoured conversation with Ramos and Castilla.

But most of all it is obviously a Cule article and that has no place here in our madrid section. Make these ridiculous postings in your own section or General.

Get out of here. Hala Madrid.
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Post by guest7 Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:26 pm

Is Arbeloa even ready? Mou took him off becouse he felt pain.

A trivote with Khedira-Alonso-Coentrao isnt stupid, considiring Coentrao has played vs Barca before and I think he did a pretty good job
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Post by the xcx Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:33 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:*Boring ass story*
You come here with "unbiased" intentions, and then come up with that shit? FAIL, gtfo.


Last edited by The xcx on Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:36 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Le Samourai Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:34 pm

^I avoided responding because obviously you have an opinion of Mourinhio that can't be changed but I have to say......I've had enough.

>You do not understand Mourinhio......that much is clear.Mourinhio is not Xavi.......everything he says or does has a purpose.When he reacts badly to a defeat claiming conspiracy or whatever......anyone can realise that he's rallying his players behind him and more importnatly......behind themselves.

Could you imagine a Roman general saying...."We lost....we lost fair and square...but next time"

No?You Know why? because there is no next time after that......everyone is demorazilized , dejected and despondant and will carry a huge inferiority complex for the rest of his life......a case especially relevant to the huge egos of the kids in the Real madrid dressing room.

It's a cool story and all.....but that disgusting piece of Vermin is the same one that every player who has ever encountered him calls the best mager they've ever encountered and whom many call their personal friend.Coincidence? No?

look....you don't have to like mourinhio.....and I will probably never be able to change your opinion of him, but you need to respect individual's different ways of doing things. Everything that you listed is related to his coaching style , and u may not like the process , but the process brings results.

If you ever played football competitively you will really be able to understand what mourinhio does and you will appreciate him alot more.

You'll never look at this from the point of view of total ambivalence but I'll put it like this in a funny way , You're like the citzens of Gotham watching all these people die because of Batman, and you think Batman is evil or at least that he has no integrity , when the fact is he has more integrity than anyone in the world. Most do not understand why Mourinhio is so great , It's not his tactics , he can change tactics anytime he wants , it for the very reason you hate him that he is great. He assumes the role of the villan so that the team can function, free of pressure , free of hate. He is like a collossal shield against the negative forces of the footballing world for his players.With Mourinhio as coach Argentina would win 3 consecutive world cups because of this.People do have respect for him , but only people that matter.

Lastly.....I'm not interested in an argument.......I've already overreacted to one Barca fan this week...............this is just a point of view for you to consider........wether you agree wholly or not.....keep it at the back of your mind whenever you consider anything Mourinhio does.It's amazing what a different vantage point will do for your perception of a person.


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Post by estrella bernabeu Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:38 pm

Finally, i find a 4-3-3 with Alonso/Khedira/Coentrao a bit more logical. Lass will be a RB.
That's gonna be a war in the midfield if Pep has already choosen the 3-4-3

@Bill have you read all that creepy Novel ? Come on dude :study:
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Post by BarcaLearning Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:39 pm

H.A. wrote:BarcaLearnig I don't recommend trolling us in our own section Rolling Eyes , things can get ugly pretty quickly

Anyway really liked Karanka's press conference, I think its true we'll play a 4-3-3 in that ozil [hopefully] will play deeper. I guess we'll see Benz play the AM role a bit if he starts.


futbol_bill wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:
ronalessi wrote:
ragbirjosh wrote:
Zealous wrote:He did the same thing last year.
Last year was even funnier ,he just sat there and watched and all the journalists were like Suspect confused


Mourinho is such an arrogant prick! Pull all the trick that he can, Barca are still better Twisted Evil

Looks like we've got some newbe Barca trolling!!

Have you not noticed the change in Mou since the eye poking instance?

Gone are all of last year's antics. He is much much quieter and isn't doing anything to inflate the opposition (nor refs). I don't know if any of this is a reults of rmoured discussions with Perez or Ramos / Castilla, but he is much much improved over last year or whether he by himself came to the realization that his antics weren't helping himslef, team nor Real Madrid image. His press conference are almost social this year as opposed to the arrogant conduct last year.

@Nick, if you're right re Arbeloa, Lass, is Arbeloa hurt (Mou did say he replaced him with his Portuguese buddy that Arbeloa had a slight problem)?

Well its good to learn that Mourinho has changed if thats true...but him not turning up to the press conference? Why?

Gladiator wrote:BTW guys, this IS VERY INTERESTING:

"2Pep just finished his press conference. For cules who understand Spanish, read through @Guardiolato or @OpinionCule timelines on Twitter, very interesting pressy. Judging from what he said, I also think it'll be a 3-4-3 now. My prediction would be this:

Valdés

Piqué - Mascherano - Abidal

Busquets

Xavi - Iniesta

Alves --------------- Cesc --------------- Alexis

Messi"

Im not sure but I think 3-4-3 can work out if u guys end up 4-3-3. Our so called 3-4-3 works becos in reality the DM slots back into defense at anytime Smile Im a bit confused about Alves though I thought it would be another player in, but Alves obviously is good enough to play there too.

H.A. wrote:Just checked marca, they caved in and posted the defensive 4-3-3 line-up as their predicted line-up. Take it with a grain of salt though Very Happy


Does Marca have an English version? I wanna check it out also~ Razz

The xcx wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:*Boring ass story*
You come here with "unbiased" attentions, and then come up with that shit? FAIL

Lol! I didnt mean any harm to u guys, and I will take the advice, I wont spice things up any further Razz
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Post by Onyx Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:41 pm

Why do we need 3 DM's against Barca?

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Post by BarcaLearning Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:44 pm

futbol_bill wrote:I would agree with a few of your comments, but Mou has changed his antics / attitude dramactically since that game, whether it be from self analaysis, conversation with perez or rumoured conversation with Ramos and Castilla.

But most of all it is obviously a Cule article and that has no place here in our madrid section. Make these ridiculous postings in your own section or General.

Get out of here. Hala Madrid.

ragbirjosh wrote:^I avoided responding because obviously you have an opinion of Mourinhio that can't be changed but I have to say......I've had enough.

>You do not understand Mourinhio......that much is clear.Mourinhio is not Xavi.......everything he says or does has a purpose.When he reacts badly to a defeat claiming conspiracy or whatever......anyone can realise that he's rallying his players behind him and more importnatly......behind themselves.

Could you imagine a Roman general saying...."We lost....we lost fair and square...but next time"

No?You Know why? because there is no next time after that......everyone is demorazilized , dejected and despondant and will carry a huge inferiority complex for the rest of his life......a case especially relevant to the huge egos of the kids in the Real madrid dressing room.

It's a cool story and all.....but that disgusting piece of Vermin is the same one that every player who has ever encountered him calls the best mager they've ever encountered and whom many call their personal friend.Coincidence? No?

look....you don't have to like mourinhio.....and I will probably never be able to change your opinion of him, but you need to respect individual's different ways of doing things. Everything that you listed is related to his coaching style , and u may not like the process , but the process brings results.

If you ever played football competitively you will really be able to understand what mourinhio does and you will appreciate him alot more.

You'll never look at this from the point of view of total ambivalence but I'll put it like this in a funny way , You're like the citzens of Gotham watching all these people die because of Batman, and you think Batman is evil or at least that he has no integrity , when the fact is he has more integrity than anyone in the world. Most do not understand why Mourinhio is so great , It's not his tactics , he can change tactics anytime he wants , it for the very reason you hate him that he is great. He assumes the role of the villan so that the team can function, free of pressure , free of hate. He is like a collossal shield against the negative forces of the footballing world for his players.With Mourinhio as coach Argentina would win 3 consecutive world cups because of this.People do have respect for him , but only people that matter.

Lastly.....I'm not interested in an argument.......I've already overreacted to one Barca fan this week...............this is just a point of view for you to consider........wether you agree wholly or not.....keep it at the back of your mind whenever you consider anything Mourinhio does.It's amazing what a different vantage point will do for your perception of a person.



Haha I sense the hostility already Razz But really Im new ok, and didnt mean to provoke anything but just that I foudn this section contained the El Cassico topic with the most discussion, its now exploding too with 20 pages whereas Barca section only has 5 Razz I'll stick to the game discussion.

But one last point on Mourinho. As for the explanation about about Mourinho....well tell me this, why did he do the eye poke? Just to "defend his players". That must be a no. But at least its admitted he is not perfect and many dont like some of his ways...

And for the lineup of Real, I fear Contrao more really as he offers a lot of energy and can defend and attack. Ozil deep I just dont see how that can work...so probably Alonso, Khedira and Contrao? Smile
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