Xabi Alonso

I am not for playing Alonso DM either. Just not his thing, but is he really playing that bad? and is it his fault Spain are losing?

EarlyPrototype wrote:I am not for playing Alonso DM either. Just not his thing, but is he really playing that bad? and is it his fault Spain are losing?

Its not all his fault but being the lone DM you are suppose to stop the play, be that stop counter attacks etc etc......

And i dont like 4-2-3-1 with Busquets and Alonso because it forces Xavi to play AM and Iniesta outwide.....

Too many square pegs in round holes for my liking just to include Alonso.....

As you said its not his thing, not his fault the issue we have here is his role is mainly Xavi's role and Xavi is better......

Would much prefer to see this.......

Immaculate_Mole wrote:

EarlyPrototype wrote:I am not for playing Alonso DM either. Just not his thing, but is he really playing that bad? and is it his fault Spain are losing?

And i dont like 4-2-3-1 with Busquets and Alonso because it forces Xavi to play AM and Iniesta outwide.....

Tbf they did win the WC with that formation.

Not the 4231, but the Alonso-Busquets double pivot.

I would like to point out, I didnt watch this game. My opinion was based on Alonsos career and his current play, not this one game which I didnt even see.

The game against England, I thought he did well-ish (but then again, I only saw 60minutes or so) but I thought at times he was overambitous in his passing from deep which wasnt what the rest of the team seemed used to.

England didnt attack much, so didnt see the defensive issues I have talked about before.

Spain is crap as a whole Mole, dont blame it on Alonso. They arent even pressing nor doing the work.

is anyone even watching the game?

Alonso is not to blame

EarlyPrototype wrote:

Immaculate_Mole wrote:

EarlyPrototype wrote:I am not for playing Alonso DM either. Just not his thing, but is he really playing that bad? and is it his fault Spain are losing?

And i dont like 4-2-3-1 with Busquets and Alonso because it forces Xavi to play AM and Iniesta outwide.....

Tbf they did win the WC with that formation.

Not the 4231, but the Alonso-Busquets double pivot.

Yh i know, infact id like to point out i want this because it allows Xavi and Iniesta to play together like they should.

It goes like this imo.......

1. Busquets as DM
2. Double Pivot
3. Martinez
4. Alonso as DM

Double pivot isnt bad and would much rather see it than Alonso as lone dm, but Busquets as DM allows for someone who knows how to do the job and it allows Xavi and Iniesta play CM and add Mata and Silva for outwide.

Theres many advantages to 4-3-3 with Busquets than double pivot with Busquets and Alonso.....

Not necessarily because of Busquets but because it allows all of them to play in thier natural roles.

@ Nick and Jeps

This isnt the first time Spain have been raped consistently on the counter with Alonso as DM on his own this isnt just about tonight this is something that has being brewing over for a long time.

I hope people are starting to see how much Spain need Pedro. I have been saying it for a while now. The need a fast direct player looking to get in the box and score and that's what Pedro is.

I have said it time and again, when Pedro is healthy in there in games that count VDB will start Pedro over Silva. I love Silva but they need a pure winger out there and he looks to hold the ball up too much. It's a shame but a couple great great players will always have to be left out of this team. And yes I do realize Silva scored.

dnmac4 wrote:I hope people are starting to see how much Spain need Pedro. I have been saying it for a while now. The need a fast direct player looking to get in the box and score and that's what Pedro is.

I have said it time and again, when Pedro is healthy in there in games that count VDB will start Pedro over Silva. I love Silva but they need a pure winger out there and he looks to hold the ball up too much. It's a shame but a couple great great players will always have to be left out of this team. And yes I do realize Silva scored.

I would agree, but Pedro has been in absolutely awful form this year.

Immaculate_Mole wrote:

dnmac4 wrote:I hope people are starting to see how much Spain need Pedro. I have been saying it for a while now. The need a fast direct player looking to get in the box and score and that's what Pedro is.

I have said it time and again, when Pedro is healthy in there in games that count VDB will start Pedro over Silva. I love Silva but they need a pure winger out there and he looks to hold the ball up too much. It's a shame but a couple great great players will always have to be left out of this team. And yes I do realize Silva scored.

I would agree, but Pedro has been in absolutely awful form this year.

Yes, he hasn't been great but I really don't care. They have to many similar players out there right now and they are making it very easy to defend them. As long as Pedro is running at people shooting and creating deflections and killing himself to win the ball back that's fine with me.

It's very easy to compare Spain with Barca because they have like all of there players. But if you think about it the players Spain doesn't have are all the people who push the action for Barca. Pedro, Messi and Alves. These three are constantly putting pressure on the other team and they make it very difficult to counter because they kill them selves to win the ball back and if you slip up and get out of position those three are so direct that there in your penalty box in no time flat.

Immaculate_Mole wrote:

EarlyPrototype wrote:

Immaculate_Mole wrote:

EarlyPrototype wrote:I am not for playing Alonso DM either. Just not his thing, but is he really playing that bad? and is it his fault Spain are losing?

And i dont like 4-2-3-1 with Busquets and Alonso because it forces Xavi to play AM and Iniesta outwide.....

Tbf they did win the WC with that formation.

Not the 4231, but the Alonso-Busquets double pivot.

Yh i know, infact id like to point out i want this because it allows Xavi and Iniesta to play together like they should.

It goes like this imo.......

1. Busquets as DM
2. Double Pivot
3. Martinez
4. Alonso as DM

Double pivot isnt bad and would much rather see it than Alonso as lone dm, but Busquets as DM allows for someone who knows how to do the job and it allows Xavi and Iniesta play CM and add Mata and Silva for outwide.

Theres many advantages to 4-3-3 with Busquets than double pivot with Busquets and Alonso.....

Not necessarily because of Busquets but because it allows all of them to play in thier natural roles.

@ Nick and Jeps

This isnt the first time Spain have been raped consistently on the counter with Alonso as DM on his own this isnt just about tonight this is something that has being brewing over for a long time.

Mole great post, but Del Bosque is biased and won't drop Alonso. I doubt he has the balls to do it. Spain was much better in second half with Busquets as DM. Probably in next game there will be double pivot

This was directed at me but my response is that Spain not winning today was due to different factors not just Alonso.

so in short,

Immaculate_Mole wrote:

EarlyPrototype wrote:I am not for playing Alonso DM either. Just not his thing, but is he really playing that bad? and is it his fault Spain are losing?

Its not all his fault but being the lone DM you are suppose to stop the play, be that stop counter attacks etc etc......

And i dont like 4-2-3-1 with Busquets and Alonso because it forces Xavi to play AM and Iniesta outwide.....

Too many square pegs in round holes for my liking just to include Alonso.....

As you said its not his thing, not his fault the issue we have here is his role is mainly Xavi's role and Xavi is better......

Would much prefer to see this.......

Casillas
Arbeloa Ramos Pique Enrique
Busquets
Xavi Iniesta
Silva Llorente Mata

No Villa = FAIL!
Villa IN, Mata Out

Edit: one more thing, Puyol IN, Arbeloa Out, RAMOS---> RB!!

There are so many problems with Spain I don't even know where to begin to be honest. The first problem is width. Playing Iniesta villa and Silva as the front three reduces the width drasticalkly and as we see from Spain generaly the full back don't overlap and are a lot more cautious. Iniest drifts into the centre and silva drifts out wide, and Villa, because he lacks conficdence or maybe a bit of pace cuts in a lot quicker than he used to making Spain horribly predictable. There is a reason Pedro and Navcas were so useful for spain, they gave Spain that extra width and that meant that the centre mf wasn't to packed, becasue atm, Spain are packing the mf and just passing it around, SIlva and iniesta don't offer penetration from the front, Cesc can with his forward drives. I can say more things but i can't be bothered.

Why the hell is Alonso starting over Biscuits lool

So much Alonso hate in this thread, Alonso is a far superior player to Busquets and that is not debatable, I really don't rate Busquets that much, I don't think he can do anything the likes of Alonso and Javi Martinez can't do. The only argument for his inclusion in the Spain NT is that can play with Xavi and Iniesta!!!

buddytaller wrote:So much Alonso hate in this thread, Alonso is a far superior player to Busquets and that is not debatable, I really don't rate Busquets that much, I don't think he can do anything the likes of Alonso and Javi Martinez can't do. The only argument for his inclusion in the Spain NT is that can play with Xavi and Iniesta!!!

No one is debating that LOL

The thing is as i said before this isnt football manager of Fifa LOL this isnt a dream team you put the best players in each position......

And Busquets has proven to be a stellar DM by himself, something Alonso has never proven and when he does play that role he fails miserably......

No one is hating Alonso ffs its just he isnt a DM and his inclusion in the team is either leading to team getting raped on the counter when he plays DM by himself or leading to play people like Xavi and Iniesta out of position just to fit him in.

How hard is this for people to understand?

Too hard obviously.

Okay, I cannot stay away from this thread. RAGE.

Alonso is not a DM, so putting the blame on him when he has to play as a DM is nonsense.

In the game against England, Alonso > Xavi. Lately, Alonso has been the playmaker for Spain, and I think that in the games where Del Bosque has played Alonso/Silva, Spain has played its most exciting, effective football.

Whoever said he should retire from the NT is seriously deluded.

If you are going to play Barca football with Busi (who is decidedly average), Xavi and Iniesta, you need a whole team who can play like that, a deadly effective finisher and a creative Messi like player. Spain has the finishers, but for some reason they all seem to fail. They have no Messi. Therefore, it would work better to play a more direct, attacking game with the qualities they have. In that, Alonso simply works better. Go watch games like the Spain friendly against the US or Venezuela this summer.

buddytaller wrote:So much Alonso hate in this thread, Alonso is a far superior player to Busquets and that is not debatable, I really don't rate Busquets that much, I don't think he can do anything the likes of Alonso and Javi Martinez can't do. The only argument for his inclusion in the Spain NT is that can play with Xavi and Iniesta!!!

Well you just answered your own question. It doesn't matter how good Alonso is if he can't play with Xaviesta (I'm not saying Alonso can't). It's crucial for that position to be on the same page as Xaviesta and Busquets is clearly better then Alonso at it, as he should be because he came up in the same system and plays on the same team. And let's be real, Xaviesta isn't going anywhere.

I do think your way off saying you don't rate Busquets. You can hate him, I understand that and he deserves it but he is a fantastic footballer. Sure Xabi does somethings better then Busquets like shooting and through balls and is a great player but when it comes to playing defense stopping counters and short passing not to mention knowing what Xaviesta are going to do Busquets is just on another level. And to be fair to Xabi, that's not really his game but that's what Spain need him to do.

Another thing that's a little underrated about Busquets is Spain need his height and size for corners and defense, this is not disputable as they are terrible in the air.

In a perfect world I would probably take Xabi over Busquets for any team not named Spain or Barca although Xabi is 30 and Busquets is still a young buck.

Guiltybystander wrote:Okay, I cannot stay away from this thread. RAGE.

Alonso is not a DM, so putting the blame on him when he has to play as a DM is nonsense.

Exactly the point iam making he cant play there, so if you going to play 4-3-3 with Xavi and Iniesta then he has to be dropped no?

Busquets is a much better DM that is all iam saying for crying out load i never once said hes a better player because he isnt......

I dont like the 4-2-3-1 for one reason and one reason only it forces arguably the best two players out of position in Xavi and Iniesta just to fit Alonso in.

Guiltybystander wrote:Okay, I cannot stay away from this thread. RAGE.

Alonso is not a DM, so putting the blame on him when he has to play as a DM is nonsense.

In the game against England, Alonso > Xavi. Lately, Alonso has been the playmaker for Spain, and I think that in the games where Del Bosque has played Alonso/Silva, Spain has played its most exciting, effective football.

Whoever said he should retire from the NT is seriously deluded.

If you are going to play Barca football with Busi (who is decidedly average), Xavi and Iniesta, you need a whole team who can play like that, a deadly effective finisher and a creative Messi like player. Spain has the finishers, but for some reason they all seem to fail. They have no Messi. Therefore, it would work better to play a more direct, attacking game with the qualities they have. In that, Alonso simply works better. Go watch games like the Spain friendly against the US or Venezuela this summer.

Iniesta

And the reason why xabi is playing better is because del bosque moved xavi from his position so he could make room for alonso.

Xavi's performance before xabi>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> xabi's performance now.

I would move back xavi to his original position and play busquets as the lone DM.

Immaculate_Mole wrote:

Guiltybystander wrote:Okay, I cannot stay away from this thread. RAGE.

Alonso is not a DM, so putting the blame on him when he has to play as a DM is nonsense.

Exactly the point iam making he cant play there, so if you going to play 4-3-3 with Xavi and Iniesta then he has to be dropped no?

Busquets is a much better DM that is all iam saying for crying out load i never once said hes a better player because he isnt......

I dont like the 4-2-3-1 for one reason and one reason only it forces arguably the best two players out of position in Xavi and Iniesta just to fit Alonso in.

Agree totally with this. The other thing that's really obvious and I know he scored today is that Silva just doesn't fit into this team unless Xavi or Iniesta are not out there. IT was painfully obvious in the World Cup since they dropped him after the debacle in the first game and went on there run.

I'm all for playing players who are in form, but I think Spain needs to take a page out of Germany's book and just go with what they know works and play a 4-3-3 with Pedro out there instead of Silva. I have been Silva's biggest fan on here but he just isn't a winger, point blank.

"Lately, Alonso has been the playmaker for Spain, and I think that in the games where Del Bosque has played Alonso/Silva, Spain has played its most exciting, effective football. "

I just don't know where your getting this? They won the World Cup and Euro's for the first time in there history and went on the longest winning streak in the history of international football doing it the other way.

I just don't know how in the world you could say that, please explain?

Xabi would never work as a lone DM, he's not that type of DM that only focus on reading and intercepting the game. i don't know what Del Bosque was thinking.

honestly I think Alonso should be in the national team just based on form
he has been one of laliga's best players

but ofcourse im gonna be called delusional by everyone else

punkfusion1992 wrote:honestly I think Alonso should be in the national team just based on form
he has been one of laliga's best players

but ofcourse im gonna be called delusional by everyone else

Nope my point is that for everyone to be played in thier rightful position 4-3-3 should be played.......

And iam of the believe you pick the players the fit the system the best not cram the best players althogher like its a game of Fifa.......

Alonso cant play DM we have pretty much established that so Busquets should be the DM as thats what he is, not picking a better player in a position that he cant perfom very well in it would be like playing Xavi as DM.....

Atm Spain are playign 4-2-3-1 purely to fit Alonso in and at that same time forcing Xavi and Iniesta out of position.

I dont understand how hard is this to understand, i dont hate Alonso and i dont think Busquets is a better player just a better fit for a DM while allowing the best 2 players to be play in thier normal positions instead of where they are now.

Unbelievable how many times i have had to explain myself.