Sell C.Ronaldo thread!

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Post by Onyx on Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:52 pm

Yeh I agree. There's no point if your best player is only going to perform vs mediocre sides and then fail all the time vs big clubs. If Mourinho was tactically spot on Ronaldo could do a lot of damage to Barca.

In the games he has played he just gets past a few players and ends up losing it. However not many players usually even get past Barca's pressure and players.

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Post by izzy on Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:54 pm

@halamadrid2 wrote:
izzy26 wrote:
@halamadrid2 wrote:

how many games have we been without him and how many games have we cried for ronaldo to come back.... i dont remember any... do you??

btw how could you possibly forget valencia

I left the Valencia game out on purpose for this reason:

What was the signifinace of the game? League was over, Cup won in midweek and CL match in midweek as well.

A lot of people like to focus on these Ronaldo-less Madrid games as an indication that madrid perform better without him.

It really is false. People continue to overlook the impact he truly makes for the team.
His performace in games like Sporting away, Espanyol away and Villarreal home shows how much he contributes to this team.

Those were games where could have easily have lost if it had not been for Ronaldo. His work rate is phenomenal and has saved our asses on numerous occassions..

Those matches are what really defines Ronaldo as a player and his impact on the team. These Ronaldo-less Madrid games really don't have any substance at all.

sporting away?????????

if anything el pipita was the one who saved our asses that game

espanyol away wasnt much better marcelo scores and we go ultradefensive...check posession

we always do good vs villarreal anyways so yeah, maybe they need pelle back he was magic

work-rate??? ok hope you meant that as a joke lol

its a fact unfortunately for some that without ronaldo, we enjoy watching our games, and our passing is very close to the passing we saw with pelle


Suspect That was shocking. So you only judge ronaldo by his goals?

Did you see what he actually did in those games?

You really need to watch those games in full again.

I mean REALLY watch those games.

I can't believe no one corrected you.
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Post by Onyx on Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:55 pm

@EarlyPrototype wrote:

Here its Quantity > Quality :coffee:

53 tap ins > 20 screamers

Hugo Sanchez scored 38 goals with one touch.

20 screamers vs Barca, in every CL knockout round and any other big game > 53 tap ins vs Espanol, Malaga, Real Betis etc. :coffee:
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Post by EarlyPrototype on Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:57 pm

What big games did Ronaldo flop in? the 5-0 loss? because from the manager to defender to midfielder to striker including goal keeper absolutely flopped.

He did a good job in the home league match, mediocre in the cup final although he scored the winning goal.
You can't blame him for playing bad in the first leg semi when we defended with 10 men and had 15 percent possesion. Second leg he at least assisted higuains goal.
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Post by EarlyPrototype on Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:58 pm

mtfootball wrote:
@EarlyPrototype wrote:

Here its Quantity > Quality :coffee:

53 tap ins > 20 screamers

Hugo Sanchez scored 38 goals with one touch.

20 screamers vs Barca, in every CL knockout round and any other big game > 53 tap ins vs Espanol, Malaga, Real Betis etc. :coffee:

Good luck finding a single player in the world that can score a screamer against Barca every time and in every knockout round. :coffee:

What happened to the league anyway? those dont count ? only knockouts?
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Post by Babun on Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:04 pm

izzy26 wrote:Oh, this thread is still going.

Congratz Babun!
I feel like Einstein after delivering the knowledge to create an A-bomb Very Happy

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Post by halamadrid2 on Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:32 pm

izzy26 wrote:
@halamadrid2 wrote:
izzy26 wrote:
@halamadrid2 wrote:

how many games have we been without him and how many games have we cried for ronaldo to come back.... i dont remember any... do you??

btw how could you possibly forget valencia

I left the Valencia game out on purpose for this reason:

What was the signifinace of the game? League was over, Cup won in midweek and CL match in midweek as well.

A lot of people like to focus on these Ronaldo-less Madrid games as an indication that madrid perform better without him.

It really is false. People continue to overlook the impact he truly makes for the team.
His performace in games like Sporting away, Espanyol away and Villarreal home shows how much he contributes to this team.

Those were games where could have easily have lost if it had not been for Ronaldo. His work rate is phenomenal and has saved our asses on numerous occassions..

Those matches are what really defines Ronaldo as a player and his impact on the team. These Ronaldo-less Madrid games really don't have any substance at all.

sporting away?????????

if anything el pipita was the one who saved our asses that game

espanyol away wasnt much better marcelo scores and we go ultradefensive...check posession

we always do good vs villarreal anyways so yeah, maybe they need pelle back he was magic

work-rate??? ok hope you meant that as a joke lol

its a fact unfortunately for some that without ronaldo, we enjoy watching our games, and our passing is very close to the passing we saw with pelle


Suspect That was shocking. So you only judge ronaldo by his goals?

Did you see what he actually did in those games?

You really need to watch those games in full again.

I mean REALLY watch those games.

I can't believe no one corrected you.

here are the stats vs gijon hardly impressive

11(3) Shots (on Goal) 12(5)
19 Fouls 7
2 Corner Kicks 9
7 Offsides 5
34% Time of Possession 66%
6 Yellow Cards 2
1 Red Cards 0
4 Saves 3

and id rather not comment on our game vs espanyol b/c we parked the plane after the goal, thats the game we saw even ronaldo defending

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Post by izzy on Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:55 pm

You know what, this dicussin is kind of pointless.

It seems that you hhave already made judgement on Ronaldo based on two or three games.

Those stats are irrelevent, its about how he performed. He was always avaliable for a pass.
When we needed to relieve pressure he would pick up the ball and run with it.
He won important free-kicks and always posed a threat to the opposition.

However, it seems he needs to score over 100 goals, track back, assist over 200 goals, and refuse to score tap-ins for his efforts and contribution to the team to be considered.

Oh well.
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Post by halamadrid2 on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:15 pm

ok, lets put it this way, go to heat map and then compare him to ANY player even khedira and youll see what i mean..he wasnt in the box ONCE, even our defenders where there more ffs

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/gamecast?id=302175&cc=5739

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Post by Guest on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:21 pm

You guys do realize that I compared cr7 to Kobe Bryant, one of the top 5 basketball players ever. Cr7 is not someone you give up on or trade easily...

Without Barca, who are one of the best sides ever, we probably would have won the treble this year.

Just a little perspective.

I'm looking for cr7 to reach collective perfection. Because individually, he's already the perfect player.

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Post by Onyx on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:23 pm

I wouldn't say the 'perfect' player individually.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:26 pm

He is the perfect goalscorer tho.

@sportsczy, i dont have that kind of expectations for him, but i do think we can win even with our current team. We are jus hungry for perfection, blame it on barca

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Post by Babun on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:29 pm

mtfootball wrote:I wouldn't say the 'perfect' player individually.
I think he meant a complete attacking player Very Happy

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Post by EarlyPrototype on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:30 pm

Certainly more all rounded than any other player in the world though. The perfect forward in my eyes.

No player in the world is as fast as Ronaldo, but at the same time that his strength. Walcott and Lennon do not have his strength.

No one in the world with his speed is so good at heading balls.
At the same time he has a greatf left foot.
Power, finish and freekicks on top of all that makes him one of a kind. Only player that has all those stats and comes close to being the perfect forward is probably Drogba. That is imo of course.
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Post by Onyx on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:34 pm

Those would be the basic direct qualities. For a club like us we should look for more technicality and intelligence. E.g. Someone like Benzema.
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Post by EarlyPrototype on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:39 pm

That is why I always say we should play Ronaldo CF to finish off what the team builds up.
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Post by Onyx on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:42 pm

It kinda makes sense, but we would have to switch to 4-3-3 otherwise we would be missing out on Ronaldos dribbling.
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Post by halamadrid2 on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:43 pm

mtfootball wrote:It kinda makes sense, but we would have to switch to 4-3-3 otherwise we would be missing out on Ronaldos dribbling.

lol id rather not see him dribble at all, its frustrating seeing him lose the ball all the time

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Post by EarlyPrototype on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:49 pm

Yeh I think most people here are in for a 433. Downside is that we drop one of Ozil/Di Maria to bench.
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Post by Onyx on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:53 pm

I think Di Maria would of dropped to the bench regardless with Benzema on top form and Higuain returning. Also with Aguero, Neymar etc linked.
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Post by EarlyPrototype on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:55 pm

Benz is going 100% if we get Aguero. Neymars arrival will kill Higuain and Di Maria or maybe it is the other way round. Di Maria will be the best impact sub in the world with Higuain.
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Post by Lord Hades on Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:47 pm

how the frak do we play better with him.. lol.. like against gijon? zaragoza? two matches which if we had won couldve helpled us in la liga.. plus he gives us something extra to break down the opposition.. its called not knowing a good thing until u lose it.. same with makalele, we sometimes tend to not give importance to our most imp players.. really surprise me these bandwagoner fans.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:26 pm

you cant compare Makelele to Ronaldo bro

Makelele was a linchpin in the midfield, Vital in both attack and defense. his role was so pivotal to the team that it's only normal we failed when we picked gravesen to replace him. He was protecting the defense, while making the clean transition to the attacking players.

Ronaldo isnt even the main piece of our buildup, he is the first attacking outlet, it's also easier to replace that. Sure we will miss his goalscoring, but you need only to reorganize your attack and put a greater emphasis on building up.

I'm not saying it's easy to replace him, but no way we will fall apart.

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Post by Doc on Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:36 pm

It wasn't just losing Makalele though, we lost Makalele, Del Bosque and Hierro in one sweet swift of the pen. The team lost its coach, Zidane lost his engine and Helguera lost his partner in crime. In hindsight, we were destine to do sh1t.


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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:48 pm

Last season, Lionel Messi faced Osasuna having scored hat tricks in each of his previous two games. All the buildup was about whether he could become the first player since the War to score three trebles in successive La Liga matches.
Osasuna, understandably, double-marked him and, in a tetchy game, Messi was booked for kicking the ball away in frustration.

With 18 minutes to go, though, Zlatan Ibrahimovic finally broke through for Barca; the first player over to congratulate him was Messi, his face relaxed into smiles. For him, the most important thing was not his personal record, but the team, winning the game.

Compare Cristiano Ronaldo's reaction in Moscow after Manchester United had won the Champions League. Playing on the left wing, he had scored the opening goal, but after winning the battle in the first half hour, found himself dominated by Michael Essien, playing at right back.

Again and again the Ghanaian surged past him, and Ronaldo was unable or unwilling to track him. It was just such a surge that led to Chelsea's equalizer shortly before halftime. Ronaldo then missed his penalty in the shootout. United still won, because John Terry and Nicolas Anelka also missed, but Ronaldo, having looked like being the hero, was the player who'd got away with it.

As the rest of his teammates celebrates in front of the United fans, Ronaldo sat alone on the halfway line, weeping. Perhaps he was merely overcome by the emotion of the whole occasion, but it was hard not to interpret his attitude as a sulk.

Both Messi and Ronaldo have supreme technical ability. Both can turn games single-handed. Ronaldo is taller and more powerful, much better in the air. But he is also an egotist, wrapped up in his own personal glory to a deleterious extent. His pursuit of the pichichi and Golden Boot (the awards for top goal scorer in Spain and in Europe respectively) this season have been pitiful.

Away against Atletico Madrid, after Real Madrid had gone 2-0 up in the first half-hour, Ronaldo spent the rest of the game pinging in shots from unlikely distances and angles. Sergio Aguero pulled one back with five minutes to go, and Real Madrid almost drew a game they should have won by a vast margin.

Perhaps Ronaldo would have acted like that anyway, but it's hard to believe his selfishness was not accentuated by his desire to win the individual goal scoring awards, something that was turned into a consolation prize by the Madrid press once it became apparent that Barcelona was walking away with the league title, and even more so after Barcelona had beaten Real Madrid in the Champions League semifinal. But, frankly, who cares?

Look at the list of players to have won the European Golden Boot.

Eusebio, Gerd Muller, Josip Skoblar, Hans Krankl and Ian Rush were all great players, but really, who now remembers Hector Yazalde (Sporting 1974), Kees Kist (AZ Alkmaar 1979), Rodion Camataru and Dorin Mateut (Dinamo Bucharest 1987 and 1989), David Taylor (Porthmadog 1994), Arsen Avetisyan (Homenmen 1995), Zviad Endeladze (Margveti 1996)? All of them were also top scorers in Europe. Is that the pantheon to which Ronaldo was so desperate to be elected?

Those last three never won the Golden Boot because the award was discontinued for five years after it became apparent the result was being rigged. That two Dinamo Bucharest players won in the space of three years was not coincidence, and the blatant manipulation of tallies in Cyprus in 1990-91 led to the award being discontinued.

If only it had remained so. Imagine the scene. It's 1-1 and a forward is clean through on goal in the last minute. His team needs a win to lift the league title, but if he scores a goal he will win the Golden Boot. He could roll the ball square for a teammate who can't miss, or he can seek personal glory and shoot.
The correct thing to do is to roll the ball square as that is the move that brings the greatest probability of a decisive goal; yet by some perversion of soccer's logic the action that will bring an individual award is to shoot. That cannot be right.

Before Manchester United's final game of the Premier League season against Blackpool, Patrice Evra breezily admitted that he was desperate to help Dimitar Berbatov win the Golden Boot ahead of Carlos Tevez. "Whenever I get the ball I'll be passing to Berba because I want him to score," he said.

Which sounds like a generous gesture, but imagine the following scenario. United and Blackpool are locked at 1-1 in the final minute, a score line that, if it becomes the result, will keep Blackpool up. Evra finds himself with a shooting chance. If he scores Blackpool are relegated, while United, having already wrapped up the title, doesn't really care, so he pauses to try to allow Berbatov to catch him up so he can lay the ball to him.
As a result the chance is wasted. Blackpool stays up and -- say -- Wolves is relegated instead. In that instance the individual award actually distorts the competition.

And that's just the goal scoring awards. The Ballon d'Or and other player of the season awards are just as insidious -- invariably going to forwards and creative midfielders and encouraging the sort of showboating that looks good in five-minute YouTube clips, but doesn't necessarily win matches or lead to constructive play.

"I heard [the boxer] Carlos Monzon's trainer, Amilcar Brusa, explain that when a boxer fights on television, it's crucial he throw many punches, regardless of where they land," Jorge Valdano said in an interview six years ago. "That's because television demands activity."

And by introducing an ulterior demand, but stimulating interest in a side issue, it diminishes the game itself. All the greatest greats -- Pele, Diego Maradona, Johan Cruyff, Ferenc Puskas, Franz Beckenbauer, Alfred Di Stefano -- all those at the very highest level of the pantheon, were, while individually gifted, great team men.

Messi may not have won the Golden Boot or the pichichi this season, but he is an awful lot closer to joining them than Ronaldo.
Sell C.Ronaldo thread! - Page 9 Ronaldo7_298
At times during the 2010-11 campaign, Real Madrid's Ronaldo looked as if he was more concerned with winning the leading individual scorer title.


Jonathan Wilson is the author of Inverting the Pyramid; Behind the Curtain; Sunderland: A Club Transformed; and The Anatomy of England.



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Post by EarlyPrototype on Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:02 pm

Ronaldo said that he would rather win titles with the team rather than being top scorer.

I disagree about the part that chasing the pichichi is pitiful because he did not drop on his knees and beg his team mates to pass the ball to him they willingly wanted him to win it just like Evra and Berba.

Another thing Ronaldo may not be remembered for winning the golden boot but he will be remembered for scoring 40 league goals and will hold that record for a very long time unless he himself breaks it.
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