Mourinho best coach / manager or not?

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Post by Doc on Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:22 am

So I'm here wondering all sorts of shit and I figure why not check on to see what's up and I most say, I do miss being the midst of things. I can't fault Bill's criticisms of the man but I can say that we, as RM fans, tend to be a bit over dramatic when we are not looking down on everyone else.

To be frank, only TMO thinks he's perfect and TMO has been quite delirious for some time now. Jose isn't perfect, he messes up quite often. His attitude is quite douche and thus puts a stab at Real Madrid's rather pristine (and sometimes pretentious) reputation. However, the man truly understands football and how it is played which brings me to the attacking football stand point.

Does anyone really consider scoring all those goals "not attacking"? You literally can't counter attack every goal, not even the annoying ass Valencia side under Cuper could do that so what makes grown ass men think that a Mourinho ran team is void of attacking instincts despite his teams always having one of the top overall total goals scored in their respective leagues. What Mourinho (and quite a few of the great managers before him and now) understand totally is that football can be played in many ways, once the end result is a win. A Jose led team is not any different. Please don't eat the hype of misguided folks who see football as black and white, Mourinho is as much as a defensive coach as he is attacking. He just understand when to be which one.

Of course, a Barcelona fan would usually chime in and mention how their team plays one way and win which is technically not true but for the sake of being nice, I would agree but in life, what is good for the goose would not be good for the gander and in football, just because one team can do that doesn't mean the other can. But let's talk about Ronaldo...

The man is selfish and quite one track minded: score goals and win (two track if you wanna be a bitch about it) with winning being the main priority. He has never been the team player that people seem to want but something about him that stands out. Something that made SAF made him the focal point, the same being said about Mourinho. What's that you ask, well, the man can f***ing play. You madridistas have been spoiled so badly over the years with awesome players that you nit pick down to the finest detail. Let's be real here, you are not gonna see a Xavi, Iniesta, Valeron, De La Pena sort of play from Cristiano, that isn't in him even if he tried. He's a the destroyer, not the creator and to be honest, his goal scoring record makes up for quite a bit of his known flaws (his free kicks are atrocious though).

With that being said, I must commend Bill for this thread. It shows something that I take pride in: we are all different in thinking. It's why I get really upset when us Madrid fans are generalised as we all think alike. I am a pro Mourinho supporter, I think he's doing a fine job but I sometimes need guys like Nick and Bill and to a point, Hala to keep me from running off on a tandum in his praises and also, it's his god damn second year. Rome wasn't built in a day nor in a year, behave your damn selves and enjoy the ride, who knows where it would take us.

If you need me, I'll be in the car...


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Post by The Madrid One on Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:32 am

@Doc wrote:So I'm here wondering all sorts of shit and I figure why not check on to see what's up and I most say, I do miss being the midst of things. I can't fault Bill's criticisms of the man but I can say that we, as RM fans, tend to be a bit over dramatic when we are not looking down on everyone else.

To be frank, only TMO thinks he's perfect and TMO has been quite delirious for some time now. Jose isn't perfect, he messes up quite often. His attitude is quite douche and thus puts a stab at Real Madrid's rather pristine (and sometimes pretentious) reputation. However, the man truly understands football and how it is played which brings me to the attacking football stand point.

Does anyone really consider scoring all those goals "not attacking"? You literally can't counter attack every goal, not even the annoying ass Valencia side under Cuper could do that so what makes grown ass men think that a Mourinho ran team is void of attacking instincts despite his teams always having one of the top overall total goals scored in their respective leagues. What Mourinho (and quite a few of the great managers before him and now) understand totally is that football can be played in many ways, once the end result is a win. A Jose led team is not any different. Please don't eat the hype of misguided folks who see football as black and white, Mourinho is as much as a defensive coach as he is attacking. He just understand when to be which one.

Of course, a Barcelona fan would usually chime in and mention how their team plays one way and win which is technically not true but for the sake of being nice, I would agree but in life, what is good for the goose would not be good for the gander and in football, just because one team can do that doesn't mean the other can. But let's talk about Ronaldo...

The man is selfish and quite one track minded: score goals and win (two track if you wanna be a bitch about it) with winning being the main priority. He has never been the team player that people seem to want but something about him that stands out. Something that made SAF made him the focal point, the same being said about Mourinho. What's that you ask, well, the man can f***ing play. You madridistas have been spoiled so badly over the years with awesome players that you nit pick down to the finest detail. Let's be real here, you are not gonna see a Xavi, Iniesta, Valeron, De La Pena sort of play from Cristiano, that isn't in him even if he tried. He's a the destroyer, not the creator and to be honest, his goal scoring record makes up for quite a bit of his known flaws (his free kicks are atrocious though).

With that being said, I must commend Bill for this thread. It shows something that I take pride in: we are all different in thinking. It's why I get really upset when us Madrid fans are generalised as we all think alike. I am a pro Mourinho supporter, I think he's doing a fine job but I sometimes need guys like Nick and Bill and to a point, Hala to keep me from running off on a tandum in his praises and also, it's his god damn second year. Rome wasn't built in a day nor in a year, behave your damn selves and enjoy the ride, who knows where it would take us.

If you need me, I'll be in the car...

now now now... get in the car and drive off u hater... :coffee: mou is god, if you dont think so then ur a weakling
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:48 am

@Doc, so good to see you back, hope you are feeling better Very Happy

your presence here was definitely missed, i found myself looking over my shoulder whenever i would post about Higuain or Benzema Razz
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Post by ÖMARz on Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:10 am

@Shamirr wrote:
@ÖMARz wrote:Just imagine wenger as mous assistant coach at madrid.

One can only dream.

errrr that's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy beyond dreaming!

I mean VDB is a dream, Wenger workign under mou? really, you brain went there? scratch

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Post by Le Samourai on Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:34 am

OK.

I think that in many regards Mou is actually the best coach in the world. His motivational skills , his own personal handling of the press and the baggage associated with managing a club, and his defensive tactics. That being said Real Madrid will never be his ideal fit.Mou is a short term coach, reflected by his tendency not to attempt to evolve or adapt , but to simply change when faced by a new situation.

But who knows , maybe he intends to settle down somehere one day and dispel the rumor I outlined above.

Player recruitment: He is fantastic in this department , it's difficult to find a single manager better than him.

His attitude and nuances are all part of his management process , so I have no problem with them. His jokes and trolls in the media are what actually made me like him in the first place. Even if he trolled Real Madrid , I would give him his credit.

I like the guy , some people hate him, it's all a matter of opinion.What is not a matter of opinion is his results which are unmatched.



As for VDB>Mou that is a subjective decision , but for Madrid Certainly.

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Post by Seppuku on Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:05 pm

Because he's the hero Madrid deserves, but not the one it needs right now.
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Post by Shamirr on Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:16 pm

@ÖMARz wrote:
@Shamirr wrote:
@ÖMARz wrote:Just imagine wenger as mous assistant coach at madrid.

One can only dream.

errrr that's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy beyond dreaming!

I mean VDB is a dream, Wenger workign under mou? really, you brain went there? scratch

Smoking some strong shit, let me be silent

Razz Fair enough...

Nice to see your back for even a short visit Doc...

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Post by Guest on Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:23 pm

I get frustrated of our offense because we should be able to dictate tempo a lot better than we do now. We're a bit too direct... Also, with both CR7 and Di Maria in together, we were dribble-happy as opposed to trying to breach the defenses with passing.

But to be honest, i'll take a manager that put together an organized and effective defense any day of the week. You can't always score 2+ goals as there will be games where you just are off or the opponent stops you. If you don't concede more than 1 goal in almost all your games and get clean cheats 50% of the time, you have a chance to win every game, whether you're on or not. That's what Mou's about... giving the team the best chance to win every single game regardless of form. This is also why he is the best at winning trophies.

But it will come down to trophies with Mou. He needs to win at least 1 in every season and La Liga or CL in the next 2 years to continue with Madrid.

As far as potential replacements: Joachim Low after the Euro, Wenger and Bernhard Schuster.

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Post by Adit on Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:31 pm

In two sentence,the improvements made by him is undeniable and irreplaceable but we are capable of alot more than being a one dimensional vertical team.


But Overall he did GREAT.

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Post by Guest on Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:11 pm

Some of the comments on this forum............

smh

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Post by Kev on Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:33 pm

I hate using age old adages, but...

You don't know what you have until it's gone.
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Post by Turok_TTZ on Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:36 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I get frustrated of our offense because we should be able to dictate tempo a lot better than we do now. We're a bit too direct... Also, with both CR7 and Di Maria in together, we were dribble-happy as opposed to trying to breach the defenses with passing.

But to be honest, i'll take a manager that put together an organized and effective defense any day of the week. You can't always score 2+ goals as there will be games where you just are off or the opponent stops you. If you don't concede more than 1 goal in almost all your games and get clean cheats 50% of the time, you have a chance to win every game, whether you're on or not. That's what Mou's about... giving the team the best chance to win every single game regardless of form. This is also why he is the best at winning trophies.

But it will come down to trophies with Mou. He needs to win at least 1 in every season and La Liga or CL in the next 2 years to continue with Madrid.

As far as potential replacements: Joachim Low after the Euro, Wenger and Bernardd Schuster.

Wut. The. Hell. Do. U. See. In. That. Failure. Of. A. Coach. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Mad Mad :facepalm: smoking
Wenger may have won trophies in the past but that was a long time ago. It ain't 2004 anymore. Man is senile and completely lost the plot. how I rank him? Currently the way he is he is equal to Ranieri.

Also Bernd Schuster is fine sport. If we need Mou replacement, Schuster or one of our bois (toril or michel, etc.)

Loew Aint bad but lack of Club Experience bothers me abit.

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Post by Guest on Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:51 pm

Wenger won everything when he had WC players Turok... and with flair. Once Emirates Stadium came into play, the club went broke. Wenger's been forced to play a lot of kids, shy away from any big signings and sell his best players because Arsenal can't afford them. Hard to win when your budget is 1/2 of the other elite clubs'. The fact that he's kept Arsenal relevant despite the constraints is pretty remarkable.

When he had the wc talent, he dominated. Love his philosophy on football.

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:08 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Wenger won everything when he had WC players Turok... and with flair. Once Emirates Stadium came into play, the club went broke. Wenger's been forced to play a lot of kids, shy away from any big signings and sell his best players because Arsenal can't afford them. Hard to win when your budget is 1/2 of the other elite clubs'. The fact that he's kept Arsenal relevant despite the constraints is pretty remarkable.

When he had the wc talent, he dominated. Love his philosophy on football.

Ozil and Sahin costed 15 million or less, Varane even lesser. IIRC Higuain costed us 13 million. Diego Lopez (cantera but not fully true) costed Villareal 6 million. That's a poor excuse Sport. The squad arsenal got now aren't even kids anymore, but the mentality remains that of kids. Also, Wenger is a shitty scout (not bs I'm serious) and is shitty in tactics (Bendtner at wide? really? a 6'3 1/2 target man as a winger/inside forward? really?). Don't get me started Sport.

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Post by futbol_bill on Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:14 pm

OK OK I get it. I guess I should have anticipated the reaction I got. Thanks for the support Nick, Doc and Sportsczy.

I wasn't by the way saying we should replace or get rid of Mou, I just wish he would acknowledge and address some of his faults. As I said in my opening, I think he is a good coach (OK great) and is the right man for this club right now.

In terms of long term, I still believe that once Mou has won some trophies, he has his eye on the Man U job once Ferguson finally retires. But that's not a bad thing, he is definitely building the team and the futbol organization for the future and it will be possible for a return to a more normal spanish style coach to replace him. I forsee the possibility of some ex madistras; Zidane, Raul, Michel, Figo
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Post by Le Samourai on Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:49 pm

@Seppuku wrote:Because he's the hero Madrid deserves, but not the one it needs right now.

Lol he's Batman.I said this originally.

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Post by Le Samourai on Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:56 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Wenger won everything when he had WC players Turok... and with flair. Once Emirates Stadium came into play, the club went broke. Wenger's been forced to play a lot of kids, shy away from any big signings and sell his best players because Arsenal can't afford them. Hard to win when your budget is 1/2 of the other elite clubs'. The fact that he's kept Arsenal relevant despite the constraints is pretty remarkable.

When he had the wc talent, he dominated. Love his philosophy on football.

Love his philosophy on football as well but he would be a total failure at Madrid.His budget was always 1/2 of the elite clubs.The original Invincibles was a team full of vey low key signings.The only thing that has prevented him from winning is players constanly leaving due to greed or impatience.

I would never give Wenger full control over signings though.......even though he's an amazing scout.

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Post by futbol_bill on Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:29 pm

Do you guys realize the Wenger was 1st choice of Perez when he became President again??? He turned Perez down, didn't like the Madrid organization. That was before they went and got what people described as a Wenger look aloke in Pelli.
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Post by guest7 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:43 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:Do you guys realize the Wenger was 1st choice of Perez when he became President again??? He turned Perez down, didn't like the Madrid organization. That was before they went and got what people described as a Wenger look aloke in Pelli.

Wenger will never leave Arsenal unless Arsenal sacks him... I'm hoping this will be the last season for Wenger, and if Flo get's Wenger he is gonna get some respect from me. That will give our cantera a chance and we will play sexy football.
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Post by Onyx on Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:57 pm

Mourinho is the best overall manager in the World, especially in terms of winning trophies.

However Perez pretty much appointed him because we wanted instant success.
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Post by S32TABLANCA on Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:08 pm

Mou isnt perfect. He is an asshole in the press, he is too direct and has preferences. His style leaves much to be desired. He made our rivalry with Barca into something much more unpleasant. BUT he is by far the best coach for us right now, and the best coach in the world. If he can stay for a long time, the better.

Could Michel replace him in the future? He got sacked from Getafe, and if hes not good enough for them, certainly cant be for us. I would like someone young, pure Madridista who can maintain a style of beautiful, winning football. I dont really see any good replacements. Loew? Karanka even?
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Post by futbol_bill on Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:48 pm

Saetablanca wrote:Mou isnt perfect. He is an asshole in the press, he is too direct and has preferences. His style leaves much to be desired. He made our rivalry with Barca into something much more unpleasant. BUT he is by far the best coach for us right now, and the best coach in the world. If he can stay for a long time, the better.

Could Michel replace him in the future? He got sacked from Getafe, and if hes not good enough for them, certainly cant be for us. I would like someone young, pure Madridista who can maintain a style of beautiful, winning football. I dont really see any good replacements. Loew? Karanka even?

Don't sell Michel sort. He has an excellent coaching record both at Castilla and Getafe. Each year he was given a near impossible task with new young unproven stars. His being replaced was bound to happen. It really depends upon what he does next (and how successful he might be). Laudrup is another in this same situation. It remains to be seen whether or not Zidane or Raul will coach and how good they will be. I figure we still have at least 2more years with Mou so there's no rush. All I'm saying is it would be nice to have one of our own to return as coach.
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Post by Shamirr on Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:30 pm

Let's not forget about Hierro, he still may move in the coaching direction. (Not at Madrid but it'd be nice to follow his progress too...)

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Post by S32TABLANCA on Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:32 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:
Saetablanca wrote:Mou isnt perfect. He is an asshole in the press, he is too direct and has preferences. His style leaves much to be desired. He made our rivalry with Barca into something much more unpleasant. BUT he is by far the best coach for us right now, and the best coach in the world. If he can stay for a long time, the better.

Could Michel replace him in the future? He got sacked from Getafe, and if hes not good enough for them, certainly cant be for us. I would like someone young, pure Madridista who can maintain a style of beautiful, winning football. I dont really see any good replacements. Loew? Karanka even?

Don't sell Michel sort. He has an excellent coaching record both at Castilla and Getafe. Each year he was given a near impossible task with new young unproven stars. His being replaced was bound to happen. It really depends upon what he does next (and how successful he might be). Laudrup is another in this same situation. It remains to be seen whether or not Zidane or Raul will coach and how good they will be. I figure we still have at least 2more years with Mou so there's no rush. All I'm saying is it would be nice to have one of our own to return as coach.

I like Michel, so I would hope so. I so wish to have a Madridista coach, Michel, Karanka, Zidane, all good choices. Laudrup I dont like as much as a coach. Speaking of Getafe, I think Luis Garcia is a very good coach, but probably not our standard and a bit unproven on the highest level.

I do hope Mou stays the full 4 years, and we have a replacement lined up for at least the last one.

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Post by Zealous on Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:16 am

Honestly I kind of want Laudrup to take the helm after Jose. In my dreams he leads us to glory every season while being cool and sophisticated in press conferences.

Laudrup isn't the most experienced but he has the toughness and flair to be a great coach for us.

Mind you I'd still rather have Jose but I realise he won't be here forever.

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Post by Lord Hades on Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:26 am

just one thing

i started watching football 06 onwards after the wc and slowly started following the team more and more.. we had that miraculous season where we nicked the title, then an even more impressive one in 08.. but we were still bad in the cl where lesser teams were doing better.. then our decline started.. 09 we were being humiliated by everyone , liverpool and barca just mocked us ..but we still ha a very good squad if the manager had been more competent.. instead of playing sneijder lm or benching vdv and playing gago or whatever.. and in 010 we got pelle, cr7 and the whole neuvo galacticos.. and guess where we failed again ..cl... mou came in and suddenly we were rampant in the cl.. that is the deciding factor personally for me,... how teams are actually wary and give us respect in the cl..for me he is the best manager because he put us back on the map in europe

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