Mourinho best coach / manager or not?

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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:50 pm

A lot of posters seem to think Mou is the best there ever was and that he can do no wrong.

I will first admit that he is a good coach, motivator, good with defensive tactics and an improvement over Pelli (whom I like).

But there is a lot of flaws in him that I think we should talk about.

Recruitment - I've already spoke about his err in selecting Di maria over Silva. But at the same time I think Ozil, Khedira, Callejon and likely Sahin were good signings. I'm not so sure about Coentrao, Carvalho was Ok for one year and he can't be given credit for Varane (that goes to Zidane)

Player Handling - He was given the option to take on both Pedro Leon, Garay, Canales and Albiol and yet one can make the argument that he didn't handle any of these players correctly. Sure there is some fault with the players but I think Mou doesn't know how to handle all players.

Offensive Tactics / Coaching - non existent

C. Ronaldo - here we have one of the best players in the world that is selfish, makes a fool out of himself with his complaining, diving, antics and yet Mou doesn't seem to do anything about it. If he is such a great coach he would be able to tell Ronaldo how has behaviour doesn't help him nor team and we would see some maturity.

His own personal demeanour - there is a reason why all other coaches and the referees can't stand him. He doesn't recognize that his antics tarnish our team and his only response to to challenge Perez to support him. It's no wonder he can't teach some maturity to Ronaldo since he hasn't himself.

I could go on, but I think I have made my point. He is a very good coach but that doesn't make him perfect.
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Post by daneq on Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:52 pm

VDB > Mou.

I've said it for years

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Post by the xcx on Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:52 pm

noones perfect, that should be obivous enough..I personally adore him and his the perfect coach to get the job done.
Mous offensive coaching being a nonexsistent is myth, he has always been offensive starting with chelsea to Real Madrid.
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Post by Seppuku on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:08 pm

Ozil a "good" signing?

Lol...Understatement much?

Anyways, semi-finals CL, copa winners...Results speak for themselves. Let the man do his job.
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Post by Guest on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:12 pm

offensive tactics non existent?

O.o

We in the twilight zone?

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:16 pm

Nice post, i think you could have gone more in depth.

From an objective standpoint, he is getting the results, but his antics are very embarrassing.

From a subjective standpoint, there are many reasons i dont want him here long term, but those are personal preferences so not very important right now.

I am not a fan of his football for example, there is no evolution. It's true that we needed a coach to get us the results first and foremost, so i understand the need of having him now.

He has done a lot of good work internally to get things moving in terms of the general mentality surrounding the club, and the organizational structure, so his accomplishments should be listed as well. His winning spirit is very strong as well, so it fits with our traditional mentality. Team achievements speak for themselves.

Is he an ideal coach? it depends of what kind of expectations you have from a coach. To me, he is clearly not, but i am sure he is a dream coach for some others.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:19 pm

@Crimson wrote:offensive tactics non existent?

O.o

We in the twilight zone?

I think Bill is more admirative of the possession oriented style of spanish football and the play in between the lines, prioritizing passing and movements to beat the defense. I do understand what he is coming from.
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Post by Guest on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:22 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
@Crimson wrote:offensive tactics non existent?

O.o

We in the twilight zone?

I think Bill is more admirative of the possession oriented style of spanish football and the play in between the lines, prioritizing passing and movements to beat the defense. I do understand what he is coming from.

Madrid has never been about that though...It's always been about direct attacking entertaining football.

ATM we are playing some of the best offensive attacking football in the world and Jose should be thanked for that considering that's not his style

Just look at the numbers we boast in goals and shots put up every game

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:34 pm

@Crimson wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
@Crimson wrote:offensive tactics non existent?

O.o

We in the twilight zone?

I think Bill is more admirative of the possession oriented style of spanish football and the play in between the lines, prioritizing passing and movements to beat the defense. I do understand what he is coming from.

Madrid has never been about that though...It's always been about direct attacking entertaining football.

ATM we are playing some of the best offensive attacking football in the world and Jose should be thanked for that considering that's not his style

Just look at the numbers we boast in goals and shots put up every game

Even if we have never been about excessive passing football, we have showcased a much superior level of passing in the past, one touch passing, one twos, quick movements, always going forward etc...

I am not discussing how attacking potential or our ability to bang goals, but we owe it to 1) our ridiculous attacking forces, 2) Jose and Madrid mentality of going forward all the time.

But we are still playing a lot of counters, and showing our strengths in those moments. I somewhat agree to what Bill said, only because i know exactly what he means. We are going to try to attack all the time and be direct to score goals, but we lack control and precision when we do it.

We rely more on individuals, as opposed to a more organic team play to deconstruct the opponent, and it's a level of excellence i wish for us to reach.

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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:38 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
@Crimson wrote:offensive tactics non existent?

O.o

We in the twilight zone?

I think Bill is more admirative of the possession oriented style of spanish football and the play in between the lines, prioritizing passing and movements to beat the defense. I do understand what he is coming from.

Thanks Nick, for both your posts. You are saying what I was trying to get out. Although he is the right coach for now, hopefully will bring us some trophies, he likely won't be here long term and he does have FLAWS which several in this forum won't acknowledge.
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Post by bebop_23 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:44 pm

Of course he's the best.

He's....

Mourinho best coach / manager or not? 2011-10-13%252520VoldeMou

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Courtesy of Madridista-Mac of Real Madrid Football Blog

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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:50 pm

@bebop_23 wrote:Of course he's the best.

He's....

Mourinho best coach / manager or not? 2011-10-13%252520VoldeMou

Lord Volde-Mou

Courtesy of Madridista-Mac of Real Madrid Football Blog

Thank you for the example of what I was trying to say!!!!
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Post by The Madrid One on Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:33 pm

this thread is pure nonsense.. mou is god :coffee:
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Post by Magricos on Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:05 am

How many times did CR7 dives this season ? I never wanted Leon to be signed. :coffee:

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Post by Zealous on Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:21 am

Before Mou

Real Madrid is ass for 7 years. (With maybe 2008 being an exception)

After Mou

Real Madrid is finally relevant on the pitch again.

The man has his faults but FFS he's doing a great job IMO. A CL or La Liga and he becomes one of our best ever coaches.

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Post by buddytaller on Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:33 am

I don't get the Di Maria/ Silva comparison, Di Maria is a pure winger, while Silva is an AM who can play on the wings, the better comparison will be Silva and Ozil. The Di Maria hate on this forum just baffles me, the guy practically won us our only title in three years, yet some fans treat him like some garbage.

He is young and extremely talented, and has the capacity to grow into a truly world class player, he's got a fantastic workrate, good crossing abilities and is an amazing dribbler, we'll sure see a better Di Maria as he grows into the team. And I don't believe Silva is better than Ozil, Ozil had a better season than Silva last term, both for club and country, even though Silva is in hot form at the moment.

I honestly think Mourinho is the greatest tactician in the game at the moment, he's not the perfect tactician but he's the best, he has a great ability to read games and map up strategies. He's never disappointed at any club so far, and is viewed as a legend at Oporto, Chelsea and Inter. Again he is in my opinion the best man manager around, and that is clear from the comments he get from his players, both past and present, only once have I heard a bad comment of him from a player he's coached and that was Makelele, even though he later came out to say he's been misinterpreted.

He also has that cunning ability to get the best out of his players, he made Motta and Milito appear world class at least for the time he was with them, he also resurrected the dwindling career of Lucio and Sneijder, players deemed surplus to requirements by their respective teams. At Chelsea, he made Terry, Carvalho, Lampard, Essien and Drogba some of the world's best players in their respective positions, the list is endless.

At Madrid, he's slowly building a great squad, which would have won everything had Barcelona not been as brilliant as they were last season, he's given Marcelo a renewed confidence and we're seeing the best of him, Benzema's rise in form can also partly be attributed to him. It's still work in progress, but I've a feeling something special will happen this year.

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Post by Zealous on Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:38 am

@futbol_bill wrote:A lot of posters seem to think Mou is the best there ever was and that he can do no wrong.

I will first admit that he is a good coach, motivator, good with defensive tactics and an improvement over Pelli (whom I like).

But there is a lot of flaws in him that I think we should talk about.

1. Mourinho is not perfect, we just like him and trust him a lot as coach.

2. He isn't just good with defensive tactics he is great with tactics period.

3. Light years better than Pelli (whom I sort of like)

@futbol_bill wrote:Recruitment - I've already spoke about his err in selecting Di maria over Silva. But at the same time I think Ozil, Khedira, Callejon and likely Sahin were good signings. I'm not so sure about Coentrao, Carvalho was Ok for one year and he can't be given credit for Varane (that goes to Zidane)

Silva is better than Di Maria probably but Angel played very very well last year. He is just not really preforming this year for some reason. Let's not over react, we're still in October LOL

Ozil and Khedira were amazing buys, exactly what the club needed. Hopefully Sahin is the same. Carvalho was something we needed as well, an experienced CB that the coach trusts is always a good thing to have.

As for Coentrao, he is still new so I won't make any hasty assessments.

@futbol_bill wrote:Player Handling - He was given the option to take on both Pedro Leon, Garay, Canales and Albiol and yet one can make the argument that he didn't handle any of these players correctly. Sure there is some fault with the players but I think Mou doesn't know how to handle all players.

With all do respect, who are these players and what have they ever done to deserve a baby sitting session at Madrid? Funny how the players that train hard and listen to instructions are the one that play and are happy.

Garay is different though because injuries really cost him.

@futbol_bill wrote:Offensive Tactics / Coaching - non existent

LOL

@futbol_bill wrote:C. Ronaldo - here we have one of the best players in the world that is selfish, makes a fool out of himself with his complaining, diving, antics and yet Mou doesn't seem to do anything about it. If he is such a great coach he would be able to tell Ronaldo how has behaviour doesn't help him nor team and we would see some maturity.

Yes he should tell the guy that's scoring 53 goals a season to change. Nit picking at it's finest. Ronaldo will be Ronaldo, he has good traits and bad traits. Every player who has played at this club has them both. In the end it comes down to performance and dedication which Cristiano has in spades.

@futbol_bill wrote:His own personal demeanour - there is a reason why all other coaches and the referees can't stand him. He doesn't recognize that his antics tarnish our team and his only response to to challenge Perez to support him. It's no wonder he can't teach some maturity to Ronaldo since he hasn't himself.

Please, our titles give us our nobility. Jose is a cocky bastard but he has shown more than once that he is a stand up guy. Like how he shook the hand of every Sporting player and their coach after they ended his undefeated home streak. Or how he has praised Levante and various other for good performances.

Jose will be Jose and I'm not going to expect everyone to like him but why should we care what kind of person he is since it's obvious he is good at his job?

@futbol_bill wrote:I could go on, but I think I have made my point. He is a very good coach but that doesn't make him perfect.

You could go on but I doubt your criticisms would be anything more than nit picking. He's not perfect but no one has claimed as such.

It's easy to point fingers and doubt when you aren't on top of the mountain but we closer to the top than we have ever been and we have to dethrone a really really good side and I believe we can.

Holding resentment towards Jose when the club was going no where before he came is short sighted IMO.

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Post by Shamirr on Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:03 am

Good coach, we can do better but we can easily do much worse.

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Post by Zealous on Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:13 am

Out of interest who would you hire as coach to manage the squad we currently have?

I'm not saying no one can be a good coach for us except him but really who else do you guys think can do a lot better than we currently are now?

Pep? Del Bosque? A snowball has a better chance in hell.

Ancellotti? Good coach but is his brand of football that much better or effective? I'd say no TBH.

Some no name?

I hope Jose stays for the long term, the club will be better off in the end because of the continuity alone.

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Post by ÖMARz on Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:24 am

@Zealous wrote:Out of interest who would you hire as coach to manage the squad we currently have?

I'm not saying no one can be a good coach for us except him but really who else do you guys think can do a lot better than we currently are now?

Pep? Del Bosque? A snowball has a better chance in hell.

Ancellotti? Good coach but is his brand of football that much better or effective? I'd say no TBH.

Some no name?

I hope Jose stays for the long term, the club will be better off in the end because of the continuity alone.

This.

Jose is the best for the present and the near future, beyond that dont think anybody can tell.

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Post by Shamirr on Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:24 am

Personally I like Wenger with Valdano's help. Guus on his own is another good option but he tends to be a wanderer. Maybe even Valdy himself. lol pep, people need to get over this possession football nonsense. VDB is the dream but one that will never come true, unfortunately. I actually would of liked to see what Pelle could of done with Mou's power...

having said that Mou isn't all that bad, He's stopped talking about his Prem dream, which I appreciate. If possible I'd like him to stay for a while but I would like to see the side take an even more direct approach. We counter beautifully but I feel we rely on it too much... A player Like Neymar/Hazard will help with that as well as the addition of Sahin... So it's looking good...

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Post by H.A. on Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:59 am

I really can't say he's the best manager but for us madrid we needed someone like him, a 'galactico' coach/manager may I say. I think we really needed someone with a loud mouth irrelevant of what comes out his mouth. He basically fit what perez wanted.

Up till now you have to say he's been good, its unrealistic to expect an unbeaten streak regardless if we want it for La Liga [& beating barca] so the bad run we had was kind of expected. It was good that it came early in the season than later on.

As a coach he has set a style that till now seems to work although I think we could have been better with an extra midfielder for a 4-3-3 [ignoring injuries and what not]. Anyway we are shaping to be a lethal counter-attacking team. I would love to see more of the pressuring up high [like in the super cup] as it would make us even better.

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Post by ÖMARz on Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:29 am

Just imagine wenger as mous assistant coach at madrid.

One can only dream.

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Post by Shamirr on Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:56 am

@ÖMARz wrote:Just imagine wenger as mous assistant coach at madrid.

One can only dream.

errrr that's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy beyond dreaming!

I mean VDB is a dream, Wenger workign under mou? really, you brain went there? scratch

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Post by Doc on Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:22 am

So I'm here wondering all sorts of shit and I figure why not check on to see what's up and I most say, I do miss being the midst of things. I can't fault Bill's criticisms of the man but I can say that we, as RM fans, tend to be a bit over dramatic when we are not looking down on everyone else.

To be frank, only TMO thinks he's perfect and TMO has been quite delirious for some time now. Jose isn't perfect, he messes up quite often. His attitude is quite douche and thus puts a stab at Real Madrid's rather pristine (and sometimes pretentious) reputation. However, the man truly understands football and how it is played which brings me to the attacking football stand point.

Does anyone really consider scoring all those goals "not attacking"? You literally can't counter attack every goal, not even the annoying ass Valencia side under Cuper could do that so what makes grown ass men think that a Mourinho ran team is void of attacking instincts despite his teams always having one of the top overall total goals scored in their respective leagues. What Mourinho (and quite a few of the great managers before him and now) understand totally is that football can be played in many ways, once the end result is a win. A Jose led team is not any different. Please don't eat the hype of misguided folks who see football as black and white, Mourinho is as much as a defensive coach as he is attacking. He just understand when to be which one.

Of course, a Barcelona fan would usually chime in and mention how their team plays one way and win which is technically not true but for the sake of being nice, I would agree but in life, what is good for the goose would not be good for the gander and in football, just because one team can do that doesn't mean the other can. But let's talk about Ronaldo...

The man is selfish and quite one track minded: score goals and win (two track if you wanna be a bitch about it) with winning being the main priority. He has never been the team player that people seem to want but something about him that stands out. Something that made SAF made him the focal point, the same being said about Mourinho. What's that you ask, well, the man can f***ing play. You madridistas have been spoiled so badly over the years with awesome players that you nit pick down to the finest detail. Let's be real here, you are not gonna see a Xavi, Iniesta, Valeron, De La Pena sort of play from Cristiano, that isn't in him even if he tried. He's a the destroyer, not the creator and to be honest, his goal scoring record makes up for quite a bit of his known flaws (his free kicks are atrocious though).

With that being said, I must commend Bill for this thread. It shows something that I take pride in: we are all different in thinking. It's why I get really upset when us Madrid fans are generalised as we all think alike. I am a pro Mourinho supporter, I think he's doing a fine job but I sometimes need guys like Nick and Bill and to a point, Hala to keep me from running off on a tandum in his praises and also, it's his god damn second year. Rome wasn't built in a day nor in a year, behave your damn selves and enjoy the ride, who knows where it would take us.

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